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View Full Version : Veggies and vegans only?



Atomik
04-12--2005, 10:29 PM
This is a support forum for vegetarians and vegans. A place for us to come and discuss our views with others of a like mind. To avoid any confusion in the future, I'm considering making this forum closed for posting to non-veggies/vegans, except by request. This is far from a done deal, and so I'm interested to hear the opinions of everyone else. If you want it, you'll get it. If you don't, you won't. Thoughts please :D

Paul
04-12--2005, 10:44 PM
Well if omnivores and people just interested in the lifestyle can still take part then having access might benefit them.

However ... it might be worth giving an instant kick to anyone with 'burgers are great' type comments

Atomik
04-12--2005, 10:47 PM
Well if omnivores and people just interested in the lifestyle can still take part then having access might benefit them.Yeah, the idea would be that everyone could still view the forum, but if you wanted posting rights, you'd have to request them. Only veggies and vegans would be given full access by default.

Whirler
04-12--2005, 10:50 PM
However ... it might be worth giving an instant kick to anyone with 'burgers are great' type commentsThat's always been my philosophy although there hasn't been much of that, if any that I remember. But it is really annoying when people try to argue against veg*ism or put the pressure on us to justify our lifestyle.

I don't like the idea of private forums but then making it available by request might work and would also make the boundaries quite clear. I think I'm edging towards the yes side......

Whirler
04-12--2005, 10:51 PM
Yeah, the idea would be that everyone could still view the forum, but if you wanted posting rights, you'd have to request them. Only veggies and vegans would be given full access by default.Ahhh, ok, that works better for me. Didn't realise you could do that. :rolleyes:

Atomik
04-12--2005, 10:51 PM
I think I'm edging towards the yes side......
I'm not entirely decided how I feel about the idea personally. I guess we'll put it to the vote if an obvious consensus doesn't emerge.

Paul
04-12--2005, 10:53 PM
I see your point ... but remember my post about meat on hipforums 18 months ago? I wouldn't have been able to post that in the same way if access was restriced. (unless I did it in the general forum)

At that time I was only curious. It just turned out to be my first day of going veggie again.

I'm against it. I'm against any restrictions on adults posting anwhere on the site. If we get trolls the rules exist anyway. If people want to ask or even criticise then they should be allowed within the constraints of civilised debate. We don't have to answer every question ... but new people will come in not always knowing the answers and other new people will be willing to give the answers.

Should we have only parents allowed in the parenting forum?

Atomik
05-12--2005, 08:17 AM
I see your point ... but remember my post about meat on hipforums 18 months ago? I wouldn't have been able to post that in the same way if access was restriced. (unless I did it in the general forum)I agree. That's my reservation.


If people want to ask or even criticise then they should be allowed within the constraints of civilised debate.Actually, no they won't. This is a support forum, not a debating forum. People can ask all they want, but if they want to criticise, then this isn't the place.


Should we have only parents allowed in the parenting forum?Well if that's what the majority of members want, then yeah.

Like I said though, I'm far from convinced. The flip side though is I'd rather not have to lay down the rules every time a meat-eater wanders in and starts posting. Frankly, the idea of a private forum isn't to restrict access - anyone could join, but they'd have no excuse then for not understanding the code of conduct.

stormypagan
05-12--2005, 09:33 AM
I think that at the very least non-veggies and vegans should be able to read the threads. I am not really into closing the door on anyone, especially if that door would have made a difference to changing someones opinion!!

But then I know how annoying it is when you get crap comments from total numpties, so I understand why you are thinking of doing this but I think we need to be able to educate as well, as in my opinion so many people still do not understand the meat industry etc... and what truly goes on!! So at least having the option of being able to read the threads would be good, and maybe as you say being able to request that the door opens for those individuals, that would like to contribute in a positive manner :0)

But anyway, just don't lock and bolt the door on me hehehehe!! Yes, I know you are tempted <grin> can't blame you either :D

Atomik
05-12--2005, 09:38 AM
I think that at the very least non-veggies and vegans should be able to read the threads.If (and it's a very big 'if') we were to do this, it would work like this:


Everyone would be able to read the forum
Only vegetarians and vegans would be able to post
If non-veggies wanted to post, they'd have to request posting rights
Posting rights would be given to anyone who applied, but it would mean they'd have no excuse for not being familiar with the posting guidelines.Really, this is less about restricting access and more about making sure that people understand and respect the ethos of this forum.

stardust
05-12--2005, 01:43 PM
if somebody really wants to come into the forum to wind us up with 'i love burger' type comments how will this stop them?

can't they just say 'im a veggie and want to post'? i know they'd only get away with it a few times before being unable to post again, but it doesn't seem like it will stop them.

what if a meat eater wants to post for support in turning veggie? or just wants to ask specific questions because they're not sure whether to turn veggie or not. it seems a shame to discourage would-be veggies by not letting them post.

i understand why you're thinking of doing this, but i'm not convinced yet that it's a good idea.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Atomik
05-12--2005, 01:46 PM
if somebody really wants to come into the forum to wind us up with 'i love burger' type comments how will this stop them?That's not the main intention. The main intention is to draw people's attention to the fact that this is a veggie and vegan support forum - not a forum where we're expected to defend our philosophy against all comers. A couple of people complained that this wasn't obvious enough, despite the sticky at the top of the forum.

stardust
05-12--2005, 01:55 PM
That's not the main intention. The main intention is to draw people's attention to the fact that this is a veggie and vegan support forum - not a forum where we're expected to defend our philosophy against all comers. A couple of people complained that this wasn't obvious enough, despite the sticky at the top of the forum.

ahhh....ok.

i think a balanced debate between veggies/vegans/omnivores can be a good thing sometimes, as it can present views that meat eaters havent thought of and may make them consider being veggie.

but as a support forum i agree that this isn't the place for that, so couldn't the threads that turn into that type of debate be moved into the general forum? maybe an additional bit could be added to the sticky saying this is where the thread will be moved to.

just a thought anyway.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Atomik
05-12--2005, 03:58 PM
i think a balanced debate between veggies/vegans/omnivores can be a good thing sometimes, as it can present views that meat eaters havent thought of and may make them consider being veggie.Oh, I totally agree. And they have every right to debate the issues with us. Problem is, veggie forums tend to act like a magnet for meat eaters who want to challenge or criticise our point of view, and so we end up spending more time debating with meat eaters than we do chatting amongst ourselves!


but as a support forum i agree that this isn't the place for that, so couldn't the threads that turn into that type of debate be moved into the general forum? maybe an additional bit could be added to the sticky saying this is where the thread will be moved to.Yeah, that's a great idea in principle. I mean people are free to discuss whatever they want in the general forum - including vegetarianism. The trouble with moving posts though is that quite often the threads have become quite convoluted before they become problematic, so working out which posts to move can be very time consuming. And then some posts will contain valid points followed by responses to posts that have been moved..... argh! Nightmare! The easy to move ones can be moved though.

Sarah
05-12--2005, 04:37 PM
Well I can understand the wanting to make it only automatically available to posting for people who are veggie/vegan on their profiles etc and I don't mind applying to the right to be able to post on here. I have spent chunks of my life as a vegetarian and as a vegan so feel I have quite a bit to offer and I don't contribute much here but would apply to the right to be able to contribute here.

I do hope though that people keep their vegetarian bating to the other forums and not on this one but I also think maybe you could change the blurb bit on the index as it says
"For the discussion of vegetarian and vegan diets and issues."
and maybe that invites people to discuss in a negative sense...perhaps it could read "For the positive discussion and support of vegetarianism and veganism by those who advocate and those who are interested"

I think it would be a shame to stop people posting without trying other more positive idea's first to dissuade people from posting aggresively :)

Love n Hugs

Sarah xxx

Atomik
05-12--2005, 05:04 PM
I've changed it to simply 'vegetarian and vegan support forum', which I think about covers it. Although some people are complaining that they get here by clicking on active topics and so don't even notice what forum they're in. There's no way around that other than to make the forum private.

Flibbertigibbet
05-12--2005, 08:17 PM
I have been veggie for 25 years plus and vegan for 4 but I often told I dont look like a vegan so (whatever that means)................how will you know if people are genuine ?

Whirler
05-12--2005, 10:38 PM
I'm not sure it's about people being genuine. It's simply about people showing respect for the forum and understanding the aim of it as a support forum. It will take a lot of effort for someone to bother signing up and reading the guidelines if all they want to do is troll or just cause hassle. It's about clarification.

I'm very very tired, I'm sure I should be adding another paragraph......:insane: :sleep:

Atomik
05-12--2005, 10:43 PM
I have been veggie for 25 years plus and vegan for 4 but I often told I dont look like a vegan so (whatever that means)................how will you know if people are genuine ?I've already explained that the point of this would not be to exclude meat eaters anyway, so it's not really an issue. The main objective is to make sure people understand that if they want to post in here, then they need to grasp the notion that the forum exists primarily for veggies and vegans.

Paul
06-12--2005, 07:03 PM
It is possible to implement this through the forum 'usergroup' feature. If a member wants to participate then they can subscribe via a link in their control panel. This link can also be added on the forum description page.

I need to check out if there is a way of removing threads from the 'recent discussions' list so that people don't get the wrong idea about this forum.

Saying that though, I'm still against it but happy to go with a majority decision.

the dj
06-12--2005, 07:29 PM
I think maybe it may be a good idea to try the veggies etc only - but what about someone like me who is vegetarian february through to october every year? Hmm.

But yeah, great idea I reckon. Would non-veggies etc be allowed to view but not post? That could also be an idea - just so they aren't left out. I'd definitely wish to view recipes even if I ain't allowed to post between October and Feb!

Dready Warrior
06-12--2005, 10:49 PM
i agree with paul's comments. i think everyone should still be free to post on here.

i also think that another veggie or vegan could just as easily not realise it is a support forum rather than a discussion forum. another veggie/vegan could post something that could offened/anger other veggies/vegans. its called a support forum but us veggies/vegans will discuss things in here and some of us will have very different views on certain things. why should a meat eater be discriminated against because they 'might' not realise what the forum is for when it could just as easily be a veggie or vegan that doesn't realise.

just an example but would it be ok for a veggie to question a vegan lifestyle to the point of fundamentally not agreeing with it but not a meat-eater?... maybe not a great example but hope you understand the point i'm trying to make!

Atomik
07-12--2005, 09:27 AM
I'm fucked if I can see an easy way of creating the kind of space I believe this forum should be. I don't want to exclude meat eaters, but here's the thing.....

Currently, we have a thread called "would you date a meat-eater". Now this thread is aimed (as I thought was clear from the title) at vegetarians and vegans. It's a conversation that I want to have with vegetarians and vegans. With the greatest of respect, I'm really not that interested in having the conversation with meat-eaters. I simply want to know how other veggies and vegans feel about the issue. And yet I constantly find myself throughout the course of that thread fending off comments from meat-eaters. It's ridiculous.

Whirler
07-12--2005, 05:23 PM
I'm actually a bit confused as to why people keep raising the same questions when they've already been answered. So here are those issues addressed.....

Everyone will be able to view the forum.

Anyone can join the forum and post.

The only time someone would lose their right to post would be if they abused the guidelines and that's the same across this whole forum and most other forums.
No one will be excluded. It will simply be a process that helps people understand the boundaries of a support forum.
If it happens. :)

Paul
07-12--2005, 06:02 PM
I'm still wondering if it would be a good idea to subdivide the veg forum ... One for support and one for general discussion of animal rights issues.

At least then there will be a place to move the contentious stuff.

Atomik
07-12--2005, 06:05 PM
It's seldom that clean cut though. Discussions might well wander off, weaving between tangents, before becoming a problem. That makes splitting existing conversations nightmarish.

the dj
11-12--2005, 08:13 PM
Currently, we have a thread called "would you date a meat-eater". Now this thread is aimed (as I thought was clear from the title) at vegetarians and vegans. It's a conversation that I want to have with vegetarians and vegans. With the greatest of respect, I'm really not that interested in having the conversation with meat-eaters. .

I may not be a strict veggie but ya know... I have slowly developed a hate for people who eat meat constantly but only because of the shit I get - I haven't met one yet (unfortunately as there must be some nice ones out there apart from me Mum) and I get such derogatory comments from the tossers because I believe in meals made entirely of veg. I can eat some meat on occasions but I can't date one of those people again because they ridicule something that they say stops them from being a man. Pfft!

Sunny
16-12--2005, 05:40 PM
eeep, i don't know if it's silly thinking this, but i'd really be against that idea. :rolleyes: Personally, this is one of my favourite forums on ukhippy. However, i'm not veggie or vegan. yeah i flit between the two in a way, but i'm more of just a thoughtful eater - extremely thoughtful.... I find food and lifestyle and ethical living are some of my key and more important subjects in life, and the vegan and vegetarian forum is one that I thoroughly enjoy to read through and sometimes add a comment or two. I know quite a bit about food and vegan lifestyles and such:o, so if i ever want to contribute it is nice to feel welcome within the forum.
I know that this new idea would allow for people to enter the forum and post as they wish within request, but i don't think that is fair really... Sorry... I think that anybody who is on this forum should be allowed to make a post. Where is the problem with their post being deleted or them being sent away if what they are saying is inappropriate?
If a meat eater comes in here, it often indicates that that person wishes to learn more about the vegan or vegetarian diets. This is important in many ways. Or, if that person has come in to state an opinion of their own on the subject matter, it seems to me that that is also very important - to cancel out a huge percentage of the population seems unrealistic to me. It is a blanket designed so that vegetarians and vegans can sit and discus their views and opinions without any contradictory voice piping up from the corner. But sometimes that contradictory voice is the very one that needs to be heard. Being vegetarian at one stage in my life was a huge learning path for me. I learnt a particularly amazing amount from people who challenged my opinion. It is the diversity of people that make places the interesting and blooming with life places that they are. I think part of the vitality of the vegan and vegetarian forum would leave it.
Plus i want to carry on being able to post my own opinion sometimes, but i wouldn't want to request whether i can or not :o. If other meat eaters aren't allowed, i'm off too.
sorry for this strong opinion.
love,
sunny
xxx

Atomik
16-12--2005, 06:33 PM
Where is the problem with their post being deleted or them being sent away if what they are saying is inappropriate? More work for the mods, for one thing.


It is a blanket designed so that vegetarians and vegans can sit and discus their views and opinions without any contradictory voice piping up from the corner.Yes. Absolutely. That's the idea.


But sometimes that contradictory voice is the very one that needs to be heard.Firstly, we have the whole of the rest of the forums where that voice 'can be heard'. Secondly, while it may well be important for contradictory opinions to be voiced, I don't want them shoved in my face in the vegetarian forum.

The thing is Sunny, as vegetarians, we spend huge portions of our lives being attacked by meat-eaters (which is ironic considering they're usually the ones accusing us of doing the attacking!). What's wrong with wanting a little corner of the net where we can come and put our feet up and talk to people of a similar mind, without having to defend our opinions every five minutes?

Well anyway, I'm having some other thoughts on how to achieve the same ends without the need to make this forum private. One thing's for sure though.... this is a vegetarian and vegan forum, which is primarily intended as a support forum for vegetarians and vegans. Any behaviour that threatens that will simply not be tolerated. But as always, meat-eaters are entirely welcome to post here if they respect that simple fact (as I know you do, Sunny).

Perthite
19-12--2005, 06:10 PM
knock yourself out guys. Consider me an apathetic omnivore.

Claerie
22-12--2005, 10:06 PM
I dunno why omni's seem to need to make there presence known / justify themselves on veggie / vegan forums?

I'm sure they don't mean harm, probably don't realise they're doing it :)

But it gets tedious, soz my omni friends, seriousley :o

You eat meat, ok, cool... we know!... so let's move on :insane:

I wouldn't like this forum to go private though, cos I think it'd put up too many walls, but I see both sides... so I go with whatever the majority veggie decision is *cheesy blairite grin :insane: *

Dapablo
23-12--2005, 05:04 PM
Brief interjection, its green, well done. ;)