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View Full Version : Question for veggies ... Do you own any leather?



Paul
10-12--2005, 11:03 PM
Just curious?

I've got a pair of leather boots that I had before going veggie, probably got some belts and shoes too. It seems daft to just throw it out and waste it.

I'd be very unlikely to buy any now though, but it seems that there are a lot of veggies who would.

What about second hand leather?

stardust
11-12--2005, 12:11 AM
i used to own some vegetarian doc martins and they were cool, but eventually fell off my feet, as all boots do with me!

i have a lot of concerns for the environment aswell as animal rights. to buy a new pair of veggie boots would mean taking more natural products from the earth, using more energy to produce them etc.etc.

it's not easy to find second hand veggie shoes, so i decided that as long as i wasn't giving a penny of my money to the people who profited from the animals' death, then it would be acceptable for me to wear leather.

i really wanted a pair of new rock boots for ages. i refuse to give that much money to a company that profits from selling dead animals, but my conscience doesn't have too many issues with giving some poor student a wedge of cash coz she's so skint she's got to put her boots on ebay.

ideally i'd prefer to buy shoes/leather from charity shops only, but you dont find to many new rocks in charity shops!

this is just my opinion anyway. probably alot of veggies would be disgusted at having dead animal next to their skin, but i dont worry about it as long as my money isn't going to the people who kill the animals. second hand is always better for the enivirnment than buying new whatever you buy.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

random_spontaneosity
11-12--2005, 12:50 AM
ive got some second hand new rock boots which dont smell anymore of leather. and i brought myself some new rock shoes which smell nasty coz theys new, but they are so great and comfortable.

and i got them both for under the price of a brand new pair of new rocks... coz the ones i did buy new were in a sale... hehe.

and i have a russian soviet belt which is so smelly of leather, mum cant believe i have it.

but i will not give up my boots. they are my pride and joy. unless its summer and its hot then its no shoes

Flibbertigibbet
11-12--2005, 10:06 AM
I dont buy or wear leather, not wool or silk but I also believe there is no point throwing them away and filling up landfill sites :D

Dready Warrior
11-12--2005, 10:32 AM
i don't buy leather or other animal related materials. i have a pair of doc's that i bought years ago before i went veggie but thats it.

Whirler
11-12--2005, 10:52 AM
I find this quite a weird issue. I've never particularly like leather so have never owned jackets/belts/purses etc but I have got a pair of leather boots. For years I bought non-leather boots but they'd always die quickly and were very uncomfortable, so I consiously chose to buy leather boots and they've lasted years with years left in them. So, I don't know. I don't like the idea of it but in this case practicality has over-ridden my principles.

I don't think there's any point in getting rid of stuff unless you feel uncomfortable wearing it.

Claerie
11-12--2005, 07:54 PM
I have quite a lot of second hand / vintage leather clothes and an old 60's leather and fur patchwork poof.

I wouldn't buy new leather goods, but second hand I'm not that bothered about... it kinda freaks me out that it's dead skin, but ethically I see no problem recycling old goods.

Cxx

Exedous
11-12--2005, 08:05 PM
Just curious?

I've got a pair of leather boots that I had before going veggie, probably got some belts and shoes too. It seems daft to just throw it out and waste it.

I'd be very unlikely to buy any now though, but it seems that there are a lot of veggies who would.

What about second hand leather?

My boots are really the only leather i own, yes im a hypocrite...but its either that or im shoeless..i was given them for free. Im skint and on a low wage..so its not really viable for me to get new ones. When i do, im getting faux leather next time.

Ghost

Atomik
11-12--2005, 08:10 PM
I really dunno where I stand on this one. Second hand leather isn't even an issue I don't think. But new leather? Hmmm. The problem is that most alternatives involve the petrochemical industry - which is hardly ideal. What I'd personally like to see is a company that allows cows to graze freely until they die of old age and then makes 'em into ethical leather goods!

Claerie
11-12--2005, 08:38 PM
I'd urge people to not buy "new" leather... but the movement to respect animal life is far bigger than one individual issue...

If the products weren't there in the first place... we wouldn't have to double check all the ingredients in everything we consume / wear.

I often think that we (me included at times, sorry) pick on consumers / individuals... when really the issue is much larger..

OK, the odd person buying leather builds up in number... but it's the industry specifically that needs targetting in my humble opinion :o

I think the majority of people, even meateaters would, choose poducts that didnt hurt animals given a real broad choice.

We don't have that much of a broad accessable choice in todays market.

Cxxx

stardust
11-12--2005, 09:15 PM
i re-read my previous post and realised it was mostly gabbling, so i thought i'd try again at saying what i meant a bit more clearly.

- i would never buy leather new from the shops, as my money is going to the people who profit from the animals dying.

- i have no moral issue atall with leather from charity shops as the only people benifiting are the charities themselves.

- second hand is generally better for the environment than buying new, whatever the product, so i would always chose second hand leather over brand new vegetarian shoes.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Anusha
11-12--2005, 10:04 PM
I cant see that second hand leather is more user friendly than new leather so i'm unsure of where youre Q is going...

shoes/boots/sandals are a difficult issue... we cant be barefoot all the time and the synthetic options are so uncomfortable and unhealthy...

i'll post my view on this when i've thought it through...

Claerie
11-12--2005, 10:17 PM
I cant see that second hand leather is more user friendly than new leather so i'm unsure of where youre Q is going...

hmm, maybe whether it's "user friendly" isn't quite the issue

random_spontaneosity
11-12--2005, 10:26 PM
.

- second hand is generally better for the environment than buying new, whatever the product, so i would always chose second hand leather over brand new vegetarian shoes.

xxx

second hand leather shoes are more confortable coz someone else ahs worn them in!!

hehe. sorry

stardust
11-12--2005, 10:29 PM
where i'm going with that one is that any new product uses energy to produce and takes resources from the environment. it then uses fuel to be distributed round the country, and is in general a far less environmentally friendly option than buying leather from a charity shop.

if your feelings are that you dont want to wear leather coz it's a dead animal, then new or second hand makes no odds. just dont wear it.

my feelings are i dont want to support the leather industry. i'll wear anything so long as i'm happy that my money's gone somewhere i consider ethical.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Claerie
11-12--2005, 10:32 PM
my feelings are i dont want to support the leather industry. i'll wear anything so long as i'm happy that my money's gone somewhere i consider ethical.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

ditto:hippy:

Atomik
11-12--2005, 10:33 PM
ditto:hippy:Cool. I've got a paper napkin I'll sell you for 5p. I'll donate the money to charity :harhar:

Claerie
11-12--2005, 10:34 PM
Cool. I've got a paper napkin I'll sell you for 5p. I'll donate the money to charity :harhar:

make it 10p and I'm in:insane:

Chegzy
12-12--2005, 10:55 AM
Just curious?

I've got a pair of leather boots that I had before going veggie, probably got some belts and shoes too. It seems daft to just throw it out and waste it.

I'd be very unlikely to buy any now though, but it seems that there are a lot of veggies who would.

What about second hand leather?

A friend who moved to Australia gave me her sheepskin coat (she wasnt going to need it over there) I love it loads but never thought of the animals killed to make it. I do still wear it although i shouldnt but it reminds me of her, i also have a favourite pair of leather boots that i bought ages ago, theyre worn out but theyre part of me now and i dont want to get rid of them.

stardust
12-12--2005, 06:50 PM
A friend who moved to Australia gave me her sheepskin coat (she wasnt going to need it over there) I love it loads but never thought of the animals killed to make it. I do still wear it although i shouldnt but it reminds me of her, i also have a favourite pair of leather boots that i bought ages ago, theyre worn out but theyre part of me now and i dont want to get rid of them.

i don't see any reason why you shouldn't wear it. you didn't give any money to the leather industry (so therefore did not support the killing of the animals financially) and if you hadn't taken it off her hands, it might have ended up in a landfil site. if you haven't actually bought the animal product yourself then it is better for you to wear it than for it to add to the tonnes and tonnes of landfil already trashing our countryside.

that's just my opinion anyway. i say enjoy wearing something that keeps you warm and reminds you of your friend without worrying about it.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Flibbertigibbet
12-12--2005, 09:13 PM
I would however now only buy non leather goods from charity shops otherwise i think we are breeding into the fact it is okay to wear animal skin I can not get over the fact i have a dead carcass covering y body and can not find any excuse environmental or otherwise ....but i guess that is me :D

Chegzy
13-12--2005, 09:19 AM
i say enjoy wearing something that keeps you warm and reminds you of your friend without worrying about it.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

Aw thanks, i do like it but there was a time when i was thinking about burying it...the thought of it being an animal made me sick. But i ams till wearing it and tend to egnore the hypocrite comments. (which are only ever made by meat eaters)

Chegzy
13-12--2005, 09:21 AM
I would however now only buy non leather goods from charity shops otherwise i think we are breeding into the fact it is okay to wear animal skin I can not get over the fact i have a dead carcass covering y body and can not find any excuse environmental or otherwise ....but i guess that is me :D

I do try and shop in charity shops but theyre really bad round here, most of the clothes they sell are a bit...old for me. I dont tend on wearing pop socks and cardigans with false pearl buttons just yet.

Atomik
13-12--2005, 09:36 AM
pop socks and cardigans with false pearl buttons:love:

stormypagan
14-12--2005, 03:03 PM
I hope vegans are allowed to answer this too <grin>

Personally I don't wear any leather or have any!! I have purple vegan docs (I have had them for years, and my first pair I walked the Ridgeway in and they still went on to last me years) and a whole host of other vegan footware so thats cool for me personally. I threw my leather out when I went vegan!!

At the end of the day it is up to the individual but I personally couldn't preach veganism, if I wore leather as I would feel a hypocrite!! But that is me!! I suppose I have less of an issue with "bought before I made this ethical decision not to eat meat" but I wouldn't personally and I wouldn't even buy second hand now I am a vegan.

What we have to remember that most leather products are by-products of the meat industry and therefore while meat is in demand there will be leather!! Yes, it can be argued that if an animal is going to be killed for meat then why not use all of it, so less wasteful. But even if the meat industry wasn't there (fat chance) I think leather would become like the fur industry, especially raised to provide for the need!! And also the leather industry is pretty unenvironmental too!! There are lots of issues to consider but personally I don't do leather.

stormypagan
14-12--2005, 03:15 PM
What I'd personally like to see is a company that allows cows to graze freely until they die of old age and then makes 'em into ethical leather goods!

Actually there used to be a company that did, and I think they were based in London. I heard of them years ago but don't quote me :D Apparently they used animals that had died of natural causes.

I still don't think I could go there personally still as a) coz it would be still have been a living being b) well I might as well wear human skin too then c) and unless they said on the boot for all to see "This cow died of natural causes to make me these boots", so I didn't feel people judged me knowing I was vegan!! I used to get paranoid enough about my veggie doc martins hehehe!!

stardust
14-12--2005, 04:12 PM
At the end of the day it is up to the individual but I personally couldn't preach veganism, if I wore leather as I would feel a hypocrite!! But that is me!! I suppose I have less of an issue with "bought before I made this ethical decision not to eat meat" but I wouldn't personally and I wouldn't even buy second hand now I am a vegan.



you see, i can get quite preachy about the environment, and i would feel very hypocritical to go on and on about that, then buy shoes (veggie or vegan ones) that are brand new and have taken things from the planet, when to buy second-hand would be using things twice and supporting various charities.

what put me off veggie and vegan shoes was a guy i met at faslane telling me the process involved in making them. i can't remember what he said, but i know it was along the lines that the production of the various parts of a veggie shoe is incrdeibly harmful to the planet, much more so than leather.

this guy (hussie - for those of you who have been to faslane and know who i'm talking about) was particularly clued up on all things regarding the environment, and although he was a very strict vegan, he felt it far more ethical to wear second hand leather than to buy new veggie shoes.

i don't think either of these view points is wrong, just different. i guess we've all got to do whatever works for us. i don't feel hypocritical for wearing leather, but if a person wanted to place a judgement on me for doing so, then that's their problem. i'm not to bothered about it to be honest.

peace and love
stardust
xxx

the dj
14-12--2005, 05:09 PM
I have never much liked leather, but have had New Rocks and I have some paraboots (second hand, came from the surplus). I was never veggie for the animals though it has always been a concern. If that makes sense. But I just have never liked the smell of leather, the feel of it. I actually thought NRocks were something else, they didn't seem like leather but I'd usually have socks between me and them... I don't tend to buy leather shoes anymore and would love some veggie shoes but they're too expensive and when I buy manmade stuff it falls apart fast.

Atomik
14-12--2005, 05:09 PM
b) well I might as well wear human skin tooI wouldn't have a problem with that :o

stormypagan
14-12--2005, 06:23 PM
At the end of the day there is very little in the way of manufacturing of anything, that won't leave a mark on the planet!! As far as I know veggie docs were partly made from recycled materials but don't quote me but I know some vegan shoes are defo from recycled stuff. But Yes I am sure there are many that aren't!! I suppose you have to make the choice between the planet or its inhabitance, not easy at all!! But I have to say I have to go down the road of the animals first, closely followd by the planet!!

Infact let's just all go naked hey!!! hehehe!!:D Fancy a naked forum meet <grin>:D

Atomik
14-12--2005, 06:35 PM
Fancy a naked forum meet <grin>:D :help:

stardust
14-12--2005, 09:16 PM
Infact let's just all go naked hey!!! hehehe!!:D Fancy a naked forum meet <grin>:D

last time we did that there were some very unflatering pictures of me posted on the net......leaping starshaped off one of the stones at avebury, wearing nothing but vegetarian doc martins, if i remember correctly!!!

hehehehehe yeah!! lets do it again!!

Joel
14-12--2005, 09:26 PM
i have lots...but im not militant so ...its ok (well not ok, but ok for my beliefs you get what i mean...)

Atomik
15-12--2005, 08:10 AM
last time we did that there were some very unflatering pictures of me posted on the net......leaping starshaped off one of the stones at avebury, wearing nothing but vegetarian doc martins, if i remember correctly!!!I know. I still have to send you the bill for my therapist :harhar:

Perthite
15-12--2005, 09:04 AM
why do you guys find it ok to have second hand leather but not new leather? surely that's just like buying last seasons clothing? you're still buying the stuff just a year out and from someone else?

Claerie
15-12--2005, 09:36 PM
why do you guys find it ok to have second hand leather but not new leather?

it's not particularily ok, but it's not funding the industry and it is environmentally sound to reuse products


surely that's just like buying last seasons clothing? you're still buying the stuff just a year out and from someone else?

ha ha ha :wiggle:

Paul
16-12--2005, 12:56 AM
why do you guys find it ok to have second hand leather but not new leather? surely that's just like buying last seasons clothing? you're still buying the stuff just a year out and from someone else?
because new leather is encouraging the industry to continue (think supply and demand). Second hand leather is making use of waste material rather than using the planet's valuable resources.

However I would draw the line at eating second hand meat .

Atomik
16-12--2005, 08:19 AM
However I would draw the line at eating second hand meat .You'd make a crap queer then :harhar:

Chegzy
16-12--2005, 12:13 PM
I was thinking...could wool be put in the same class as leather? Really the sheep are being bred for their meat and the wool is just annother exploitation

But i generally would rather wear wool than nasty man made materials

Sunny
16-12--2005, 02:14 PM
I was thinking...could wool be put in the same class as leather? Really the sheep are being bred for their meat and the wool is just annother exploitation

But i generally would rather wear wool than nasty man made materials

Hmm, you've got me thinking on that one. About one third of British wool is from sheep (usually lambs) slaughtered for the meat industry. This is called skin-wool. Lambs' skin's also produces a very high quality leather.

There are then the sheep that have been selectively bred for just their wool and not meat. They are only sheared, which is harmless. Those that are selectively bred for wool, it is absolutely crucial to their survival that they are sheared. If they don't get sheared in early summer then they suffer from heatstroke.

However, wild sheep do not need shearing. Some breeds, such as the Soay sheep (my favourite breed!), loose their wool in a sort of 'moult'. It comes out of its own accord and shearing isn't usually needed. They are the oldest and most primitive breed of sheep in Britain and date back to the Bronze age

So I think it depends. As with most things, whether you can simply put wool in the same category of leather is not something that can be put down to a yes or no. Damn i'm rambling too much today :eek:... But umm... I think if you are simply buying a sheep skin from a shop in town, then you have to be sceptical of the ethics of it. If it is second hand or a hand-me-down, then as has been discussed about the leather already, there is pretty much no problem with it. If you have no problem with sheep being bred for wool and wool only, ignoring the fact they they are exploitated in some ways but not necessarily badly treated, then there seems not to be a problem. If you wear soay sheep wool or some other traditional, rare breed, i think that is great. Or, you could breed your own sheep and learn to spin wool!

hehehe, sorry, i went to town on thinking about wool. I really love sheep and i love wool so much, although i don't actually have any, but like collecting it when i go on country walks. I'd like to learn how to spin wool.

Love,
Sunny
xxx

stormypagan
16-12--2005, 03:35 PM
For ethical reasons wool isn't good for vegans!! and it does irritate my skin anyway, so have never really worn it as a child let alone an adult!!

BUT the only thing I have got is a jumper made from multi coloured knitting yarns, and is made from mainly man made, and a little bit of sheep. It was made by a good friend for me years ago, and I didn't have the heart to say I can't wear it as it has a little bit of recycled wool in it, and she spent ages making it for my birthday!! She used second hand knitting stuff from charity shops etc... and anything anyone gave her!! So this is a little better as you have said!! So in that respect I suppose that is the only bit of wool I have!! But I am not gunna beat myself up about that one jumper :) which is old, with holes, out of shape but has wonderful memories as it has been to many a festie etc.. with me.

I suppose I feel a little bit better about wearing it as wool doesn't result in the slaughter of animals, though of course there is always going to be a direct link to the meat industry as with any farm animal.

I know what a hypocrite!!!

Dready Warrior
16-12--2005, 04:39 PM
i've never worn wool even before being conscious of animal welfare. its too hard to wash and keep in shape! synthetics for me.

i have recently been reading a lot about veganism as i want to be more aware of what foods and other products use animal ingredients and want to minimise the amount of animal products i use. recently i found out that although sheep may not be killed for wool they still may suffer unless looked after properly. unfortunatly not all farmers have the animals happiness and welfare top of their lists. thankfully banned in england but still going on in austrailia is a most unpleasant practice called mulesing which involves cutting a piece of skin the size of a plate from the rear end. this is to prevent infection as due to being bred intensivly for wool when the females urinate it goes into folds of skin there.

more info here http://www.vnv.org.au/WhyBeVegan.htm and http://www.animal-lib.org.au/lists/mulesing/mules.shtml