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Atomik
17-01--2006, 09:32 PM
And they'd have you believe we liberated it....


Remember Afghanistan? Insurgents bring suicide terror to country

A suicide bomber yesterday rode into town, killing at least 20 in the deadliest insurgent attack since the US invasion. More than 1,600 were killed in 2005, and the murder rate is rising. The rule of law has collapsed. The government is trapped in its own fortified compound in the capital. Soon, Britain will commit another 3,500 troops to a dangerous mission with no clear goals or exit strategy..

Full article here (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article339090.ece).
(http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article339090.ece)

Firinne
17-01--2006, 09:35 PM
Grrr, Bush .. someone should assassinate that man.

Anusha
17-01--2006, 09:41 PM
From Afghanistan online...


"Afghanistan: The Friendliest Country in the World, Possibly the Universe."

:eek:

Whirler
17-01--2006, 09:48 PM
It's quite interesting how almost every day on the news we hear something about Iraq, usually suicide bombings, it's like it's become part of daily life for it to be reported, yet we hardly hear of anything else like this.

It's frightening to hear about the Taliban growing again and I can't believe that this situation has been allowed to escalate. What hope is there for Iraq? Or in fact, the whole of the middle east? Scary scary times.

Anusha
17-01--2006, 10:00 PM
It's quite interesting how almost every day on the news we hear something about Iraq, usually suicide bombings, it's like it's become part of daily life for it to be reported, yet we hardly hear of anything else like this.

It's frightening to hear about the Taliban growing again and I can't believe that this situation has been allowed to escalate. What hope is there for Iraq? Or in fact, the whole of the middle east? Scary scary times.


I agree its all scary... the Middle East is a region on the edge...i hope nothing tips it totaly off balance..reading that article and watching the developments in Iraq and the weaponry of Iran and North Korea gives me a sense of impending doom...:( ...no...Bush gives me a sense of impending doom...he forgot America in his 'axis of evil'

War scares the hell out of me... in think world leaders should be made to join their countrymen in battle...that way when its their lives on the line they might think twice before warmongering... a childish and simplistic view i know... :rolleyes:

Roach
18-01--2006, 03:45 PM
I still think it was funny how when asked that not a single american senator was prepared to let their own child go to war in iraq, but were happy to send everyone elses

cymru_jules
18-01--2006, 05:38 PM
I'm surprised it's not more than 1600 killed in 2005 to be honest. That's quite a small figure compared to some of the trouble in African countries.

I actually think Afghanistan has been quite successfull - especially compared to Iraq. Let us not forget that there was a civil war in the country between the taliban and northern tribes that had been raging since the Soviet invasion which killed tens of thousands. It's hard to find exact figures but in the year 1994 for instance there was around 10,000 killed in fighting. Interestingly 1800 were killed from an Earthquake in 2002 and in these circumstances it could be argued that the presence of Westerners and their equipment actually saved more lives than if the Taliban still dominated the country.

The difference with Iraq of course was that in Afghanistan it was the Northern Alliance that done much of the work - thus the transition of power was comparativly more stable. Given the number of different tribes and the countrys history I'm very surprised it's not in a much worse state.

cymru_jules
18-01--2006, 05:41 PM
War scares the hell out of me... in think world leaders should be made to join their countrymen in battle...that way when its their lives on the line they might think twice before warmongering... a childish and simplistic view i know... :rolleyes:

Not really childish! Indeed in the medieval wars it was common for kings to be in the front line of a battle as it gave a big morale bonus! And as recently as the 2nd World War king george wanted to go ashore on the first day but got a bollocking from Churchill I think. It seems to be the royals that still get stuck in today (such as the Falklands), though of course monarchy rule doesn't make the decisions anymore!

Atomik
18-01--2006, 05:50 PM
I actually think Afghanistan has been quite successfullI'd go so far as saying it hasn't been a disaster on the same scale as Iraq, but how do you define success? Still no law and order worth speaking of and the Taliban on the rise again....

cymru_jules
18-01--2006, 07:06 PM
I guess the question should be - is it better now than before 2001? I'm not sure the law and order was that good before to be honest - and even if things havn't got better at least things are less oppressive.

Big change in unstable countries is always going to involve trouble, but if I was an Afghan I can see that today is perhaps the most promising time than any other time in the past 30 years.

Now here's some interesting statistics I've just stumbled upon after a bit of googling!

USA
Population: 295,734,134 (source: cia.gov; 2005)
Murders in 2005: 16,000 (source: democracynow.org (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/18/1356215))

Afghanistan
Population: 29,928,987 (source: cia.gov; july 2005 est.)
Murders in 2005: 1,600 (source: this page!)

In other words, per head of population you are just as likely to be murdered in the US than Afghanistan! If anything - the US is less favourable because there are MORE individual murderers whereas in Afghanistan you have perhaps several dozen been killed by a handful of groups.

I find those stats hard to believe actually and wonder how many afghan deaths are unreported, but even if only half accurate it perhaps says more about the US than anything else! ;)

Atomik
18-01--2006, 07:54 PM
I guess the question should be - is it better now than before 2001? I'm not sure the law and order was that good before to be honest - and even if things havn't got better at least things are less oppressive.Law and order was excellent in large areas of Afghanistan - just rather brutal. I think the real question is whether the average Afghan feels that their life is better rather than worse, and that's a very difficult question to answer.



Now here's some interesting statistics I've just stumbled upon after a bit of googling!I was under the impression that the 1600 deaths were only those directly related to the insurgency. Could be wrong though!

cymru_jules
19-01--2006, 01:12 AM
If there is one negative thing that has came from it, 'tis the explosion of heroine from the country... the Taliban simply wouldn't stand for it. I'm not sure why the various foreign countries that operate there, as well as the now united government itself - don't do something about it!


I think the real question is whether the average Afghan feels that their life is better rather than worse, and that's a very difficult question to answer.

Not sure about the majority, but I remember a news story a while ago about somebody in Afghanistan who lived up in the mountains with his family and a few goats. Yet despite about all what had been going on in recent times there lives were essentially untouched by the various wars including when the Soviets were there! Yet another benefit to living a hippyist lifestyle! ;)