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Atomik
07-02--2006, 04:42 PM
Good idea? Bad idea? Is it even possible? Can we ever resolve our problems without global solutions? How can we achieve global solutions with governments in competition with each other?

jenni
07-02--2006, 05:12 PM
Are we talking a UN type thing but with actually power, or are talking one giant nation under and individual or group leadership?

At the moment we have enough problems with a European government, because 'we' don't want have our rules dictated by 'them', and 'they' don't want to be ordered around by 'us'. Whenever a rule is in danger of actually having an unwanted impact on an idividual nation, that nation will consider itself a victim, and try to claim concessions. Any kind of world government would have to allow for the contradicting views of so many different religions and cultures, that no kind of rule would be universally enforcible.

At some point humanity will have to start seeing itself as one giant culture, with different branches, and individual nations will have to start looking out for the needs of one another. We still live in a political climate where we (humanity in general) take little issue in pushing aside the needs of other nations to suit ourselves. :rolleyes:

I think that a world government would be a good idea, in time. Its appearance must be a totally organic thing, not brought on by any crazy dictator :insane: who thinks that they have all the answers/are god. We must also not lose the ability to have and to voice conflicting views, cos otherwise it will degenerate into any evil land of drones. :eek:

So yeah, some day there could and maybe should be a world government, but not for a long time, not if it's gonna be a good thing.

Atomik
07-02--2006, 05:16 PM
Its appearance must be a totally organic thing, not brought on by any crazy dictator :insane: who thinks that they have all the answers/are god.Curses. Foiled again!

Ahem.

I take your point about organic evolution, and normally, I'd be inclined to agree. But time is running out for the global decisions that need to be made, so what's the solution if not world government? Or are we just screwed?

Starke Ravinmad
07-02--2006, 05:16 PM
I don't think mankind is capable of creating an effective uncorrupt world government. There will always be someone with tons of money buying what they want from those in charge.

jenni
07-02--2006, 05:22 PM
Dok, we are screwed....

or we could do the whole dictator thing, eliminate war and individuallity and suffer immeasureably but without polluting the world as much and then sort the details out later after a descent into violent anarchy that marks the beginning of the new dark ages.....

Atomik
07-02--2006, 05:23 PM
Dok, we are screwed....That was my conclusion. I was hoping for some creative alternatives. Bugger.

stardust
07-02--2006, 05:28 PM
nope - i would say "we are screwed" sums it up best.

jenni
07-02--2006, 05:29 PM
Okay, to save time we draw a lottery of people who will be kept alive in a special biosphere while we nuke everything else to the ground. The survivors may never see the earth inhabitable again, but their descendants will, and they will be forced to develop in a world without fossil fuels, president Bush and religious fundamentalism.....

mmmm, there may be one slight flaw in my plan....

stardust
07-02--2006, 05:31 PM
we're probably all gonna get nuked anyway so perhaps if there are any survivors there would be so few of them to govern that they would have to pull together and maybe hopefully learn from the mistakes of the couple of centuaries.

jenni
07-02--2006, 05:33 PM
....or else one individual would claim leadership and transform the others into his minions....im looking at you dok!

Atomik
07-02--2006, 05:35 PM
mmmm, there may be one slight flaw in my plan....There is? :whistle:

Atomik
07-02--2006, 05:35 PM
....or else one individual would claim leadership and transform the others into his minions....im looking at you dok!Would it mean getting up early?

jenni
07-02--2006, 06:09 PM
The closest I could imagine us getting to a world government would be better co-operation between the governments that we have, as well as better accountability to the people.

If we could get ourselves into the situation where the rest of the world could turn to the US and say 'sign it' when they have an important protocol like Kyoto to push through, or to China and say 'hey, stop oppressing people', or to India and say 'respect the Dalits' and actually be listened to... maybe. It means stepping up though, and busting through the tradition that nuclear power makes a nation immune, or that we shouldn't bother if it doesn't personally affect us. It would mean a willingness to intervene in all kinds of screwed up nations at a time when no-one has yet found the middle way that we should be following.

If the UN had the power to get nations to do stuff, and there was no risk of that power being abused.....

darn human nature! :mad:

matthew
07-02--2006, 07:38 PM
I watched a documentary the other day about Rome.. Boris Johnson 'hosted' it.. He seemed to suggest a mortal god like figure in the form of ceaser.. effectively ran Europe.. The trick was to make every one became 'roman' but they let them keep the identity they had.. Its a bit difficult to explain .. but basicaly


The fascinating thing was how they magically encouraged people to want to be Roman. They did this by promulgating this fantastic brand across western Europe. They did it with minimal bureaucracy - the Roman Empire at its peak was run by maybe 150 senior officials. That's probably fewer officials than there are in the parking enforcement department of Islington Council.

http://blog.arlt.co.uk/blog/_archives/2006/1/29/1729837.html




If we could get ourselves into the situation where the rest of the world could turn to the US and say 'sign it' when they have an important protocol like Kyoto to push through


One size does NOT fit all.. each country should be allowed to formulate their own 'agenda'.. One world goverment would probably not get into a diversive policy such as this.. but getting back to reality.. The kyoto agreement did not fit America.. so with others they orchestrated their own .. wich worked for them. Kyoto imho is a little bit effective but mostly a waste of time..

Atomik
07-02--2006, 07:42 PM
Old Boris has kinda got a point. The Roman empire was way too complex a beast to cover in any depth here, but it's worth noting that for the vast majority of their stay in Britain, the Roman's seemed to co-exist with the native population quiet happily (apart from a couple of high-profile exceptions). They seemed to have improved the life of people from what we can make out. In fact, when the legions left, British delegations went to Rome to beg the senate to send legions back to Britain! Bloody Romans! What did they ever do for us???

jenni
07-02--2006, 07:45 PM
Maybe not....twas just an example....possibly not the best in some ways....the point is that at some point in the future nations will have to do what is best for all of humanity, and not just look out for their own interests. We need to appreciate the needs of each nation, but without compromising the future for the rest of the world.
It should be possible. :rolleyes:

Yeah, i get the whole romanizing thing. I reckon twould be good if we could just become 'humans' without having to become monotonous drones who had to conform to certain individual standards. :D

matthew
07-02--2006, 07:53 PM
Old Boris has kinda got a point. The Roman empire was way too complex a beast to cover in any depth here, but it's worth noting that for the vast majority of their stay in Britain, the Roman's seemed to co-exist with the native population quiet happily (apart from a couple of high-profile exceptions). They seemed to have improved the life of people from what we can make out. In fact, when the legions left, British delegations went to Rome to beg the senate to send legions back to Britain! Bloody Romans! What did they ever do for us???

I forgot to add: He went onto say everything was going well till the christians decieded they did not want to go along with all of this.. They wished to have their God above anything else.. wich did not go down well.. eventualy crumbling The Roman empire..through in fiting and christianity 'taking over'.. So we dump christianity ... Unite the old [including Turkey] Roman centres of power..and off we go :whistle:

We have to much ingrained diversity of language and culture for 'world goverment' to take off now.. imho ok Boris's

People just have lost trust in each other .. no goverment can unite the people ALL the people.. if they could EVERYTHING would be AOK.

Kat
09-02--2006, 07:55 PM
hehe ive just written an essay on world government..a lot of my degree focusses on global governance and whether we're heading that way.. True states are increasingly transferring their sovereignty to intergovernmental organisations but i dont see world government as a feasible option..What the world needs is more state cooperation to solve its problems..

matthew
09-02--2006, 08:22 PM
hehe ive just written an essay on world government..a lot of my degree focusses on global governance and whether we're heading that way.. True states are increasingly transferring their sovereignty to intergovernmental organisations but i dont see world government as a feasible option..What the world needs is more state cooperation to solve its problems..

The illuminati run the world anyway... we are mere pawns in their game.

jenni
10-02--2006, 09:03 PM
I'm loving the genrally upbeat and optomistic attitude towards the future that folk on this forum (and in the world in general) seem to have.....

I reckon we could resolve near every major problem in the world today if every one of six billion people said 'sure, let's just get on'....

But noooooooo.....no-one wants to listen to the crazy idealist.....We need to get over ourselves as a species, cos we've kinda reached a crucial time in our development.....

i really don't get the profound stupidity of so-called humanity sometimes - tis all 'I' and 'me'..... :mad:

I really think we could pull some kind of global co-operation out of our butts though, all we need is for an entire generation to simultaneously agree to stop being generally arse-like and get on with doing something that is actually useful. :whistle:

These are my thoughts translated into rant form, so kinda crazy, but tis my point is all.

okay, peace out etc...

stardust
11-02--2006, 12:38 PM
it always amazes me that no one pays more attention to the Dalai Lama. he seems to be the only leader who makes any sense, yet none of the other world leaders pay any attention to him.

Minwah
13-02--2006, 02:10 PM
I think we're screwed...until the aliens that created us come back and give humans a well overdue update to fix the greed/money/power bug. Well that's a longshot but it might happen :whistle:

That said, I believe in thinking/doing positive things, it's just hard to do sometimes.

ecomamma
14-02--2006, 01:24 AM
I think we're screwed...until the aliens that created us come back and give humans a well overdue update to fix the greed/money/power bug. Well that's a longshot but it might happen :whistle:

That said, I believe in thinking/doing positive things, it's just hard to do sometimes.

Ditto :rolleyes:

matthew
14-02--2006, 07:53 PM
it always amazes me that no one pays more attention to the Dalai Lama. he seems to be the only leader who makes any sense, yet none of the other world leaders pay any attention to him.

What kind of things does he say... ?.

Whirler
20-02--2006, 12:27 AM
What kind of things does he say... ?.I like Monty Python?

Brick
20-02--2006, 04:58 AM
What kind of things does he say... ?.
I refer you to: http://quotations.about.com/od/stillmorefamouspeople/a/TheDalaiLama1.htm
There's a lot more on buddhism.org. :)

I've got a view that the most effective government is a benevolent dictatorship. Trouble is that any kind of dictatorship is destined to devolve into brutality and corruption. Not necessarily in that order.
My belief is that we'll never deal with our issues on this planet. Any group that colonises another planet (even one as uncompromising as Mars) will perforce have to be a co-operative group.
That will mean that group can have an influence on Earth.
OK, so I'm an optimist in terms of how we as a race manage to get ourselves into space.
We are self destructive. We need to grab another environment and really try to not screw it up.
In a trivial way I would suggest reading the 'The Caves of Steel/The Naked Sun/The Robots of Dawn' series by Asimov. Extrapolate from what is written and workout how we may adopt space and influence the place we came from.
OK, too drunk and sleepy. Must go.