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Flibbertigibbet
07-04--2006, 09:20 PM
may be repeating my post but could not find it

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/grandnational/

wiggy
07-04--2006, 10:20 PM
I hate the grand national its fucked up poor horses

Firinne
08-04--2006, 09:43 AM
It's horrendous isn't it :rolleyes:

Spiral
08-04--2006, 10:40 AM
Let's hope there are no deaths this year. At the recent Cheltenham Festival nine horses died.

Atomik
08-04--2006, 10:49 AM
At the recent Cheltenham Festival nine horses died.Yup. Fucking disgrace.

http://www.ukhippy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3322

_chris_
08-04--2006, 12:56 PM
well, my moneys going on innox ;)

koolaid
08-04--2006, 01:02 PM
The horses love it....Even when their riders fall off they keep on running around with their mates having a right old laugh....They fucking love it!!..Jumping and running and having the odd tumble....

Sure they end up in a lot of pain, they are put down needlessly, they are subjected to bad diets, poor bones and being whipped, ....but hell hey love it!!

and when they have had enough of this wonderful life of running and jumping and falling, and being whipped well hell they get the pleasure of being made into pet food....Sounds like a jolly old time to me!!

Jeez who wouldn't want to be a race horse....Used for the entertainment of sad fuckers in stupid fucking tweed being ridden by fucking midgets who need to be fucking put down for doing this shit....Fuck me where do I fucking sign up for this fucking shit!!! Give me that fucking piece of paper now I wanna live that life....Just so a few sad old fucking twats can bet that I can run faster than another horse....

WANKERS!!

koolaid
08-04--2006, 01:12 PM
Apologies for the language....just couldn't help it.....

onelove
08-04--2006, 01:14 PM
I hope the horses trample the fuckers to death!

Ms. Vee
08-04--2006, 03:02 PM
Rawwwr! Let out the anger Koolaid!

It really is a fucking disgrace though. I watched those videos on AnimalAid the other day and they're disgusting.

Paul
08-04--2006, 04:31 PM
well, my moneys going on innox ;)
I hope you are joking. :(

wiggy
08-04--2006, 04:33 PM
Has the race started yet?

Someone should drop a bomb on it - the horses wil be out of the misery of getting beaten, having people on them forcing them to run and jump.

gaz or jazz
09-04--2006, 12:21 PM
picked the winner!:whistle:

12-1

Spacer
09-04--2006, 12:31 PM
It'll never be banned though. I don't know about in the UK but in Ireland if they tried to ban it there would be uproar it's that popular.

Whirler
09-04--2006, 02:01 PM
I was watching a bit of the BBC breakfast news the other morning and they had the shitty sports commentator talking about the history of the GN. It sickened me to hear it being celebrated as if it was part of our cultural heritage, y'know, something to be proud of. Pissed me right off.

_chris_
09-04--2006, 02:50 PM
I hope you are joking. :(



i know, he fell at the first fence :(


and my other one (jack high) wasnt brilliant either

Whirler
09-04--2006, 04:10 PM
i know, he fell at the first fence :(


and my other one (jack high) wasnt brilliant eitherConsidering this is a thread discussing the cruelty of this sport, I don't really think your comments are appropriate. Feel free to join in the discussion but potentially inflammatory remarks are not welcome. :)

wiggy
09-04--2006, 04:45 PM
Shit chris are you being serious!!!!!

Spacer
09-04--2006, 06:04 PM
Considering this is a thread discussing the cruelty of this sport, I don't really think your comments are appropriate. Feel free to join in the discussion but potentially inflammatory remarks are not welcome. :)

Or start a "Who did you back in the Grand National" thread.

gaz or jazz
09-04--2006, 06:22 PM
so is this not a site where people can express there opinions one way or another.
censorship in any form is repressive

Atomik
09-04--2006, 06:26 PM
so is this not a site where people can express there opinions one way or another.People can express any opinion they wish. Being insensitive for the sake of it is not expressing an opinion - it's trolling. If someone says "I think the horses are treated fine and therefore betting's ok", then that's not a problem. If someone just starts making random comments about betting on the races in a middle of a thread where people are expressing concern with such an event, then that's trolling. And as has already been said, there's nothing stopping anyone from creating a "I bet on the races" thread if they so wish.

It's not about whether people are free to express opinions - it's about having some sensitivity regarding where and how those opinions are expressed.


censorship in any form is repressiveWhatever. The site is moderated. It's not a site where you can say whatever you want, wherever you want, however you want. We're more interested in creating a pleasant environment for the benefit of our many users. That basic principle is not, I'm afraid, open for debate.

gaz or jazz
09-04--2006, 06:58 PM
People can express any opinion they wish. Being insensitive for the sake of it is not expressing an opinion - it's trolling. If someone says "I think the horses are treated fine and therefore betting's ok", then that's not a problem. If someone just starts making random comments about betting on the races in a middle of a thread where people are expressing concern with such an event, then that's trolling. And as has already been said, there's nothing stopping anyone from creating a "I bet on the races" thread if they so wish.

It's not about whether people are free to express opinions - it's about having some sensitivity regarding where and how those opinions are expressed.

Whatever. The site is moderated. It's not a site where you can say whatever you want, wherever you want, however you want. We're more interested in creating a pleasant environment for the benefit of our many users. That basic principle is not, I'm afraid, open for debate.
i dont know what trolling is!
:rolleyes:
the thread was about the cruelness of the national,ok what better place to discuss the different views.
as regards free speech and censorship i think seeing many of us came from the hipforums site and were regular users before ukhippy broke away
that does not give you the right to censor just because your the moderator.
reads to me that your just exercising your large ego,dok.:harhar:

having said that i will end it here and censor myself:insane:
and apologise if any ones offended.

Atomik
09-04--2006, 07:13 PM
the thread was about the cruelness of the national,ok what better place to discuss the different views.Sometimes I wonder why I even bother explaining things if nobody is going to bother actually reading what I've written. Let's try again.

There's no problem discussing alternative points of view within this thread. That wasn't the issue. The issue was smart-ass, insensitive comments. Discussion is welcome, smart-ass comments aren't.


as regards free speech and censorshipLook, with the greatest of fucking respect, please pay attention before criticising. I've already clearly stated that no points of view are being censored. People are free to express any opinion they wish. It's smart-ass comments we have an issue with, and even those can be posted in a new thread if desired.


that does not give you the right to censor just because your the moderatorI'm afraid it does. As I've explained, this is a moderated forum. It's not a free-for-all where abusive, provocative and generally disruptive behaviour is tolerated. That's perfectly clear in the rules that you agreed to when you signed up.


reads to me that your just exercising your large ego :harhar:Yeah, well your comments read to me like someone who's just shooting their mouth of without taking the time to read the explanations generously provided by your loving admin and moderation team. :harhar:

Minor point.... but I think you'll find other people had objected to the betting comments before I even ventured an opinion.

Starling
09-04--2006, 07:15 PM
the thread was about the cruelness of the national,ok what better place to discuss the different views.

You didn't discuss your view though. What you said would have been better suited to the general discussion forum, not the animal welfare forum. It was blatantly insensitive to post that after everyone had expressed their concern for the welfare of the horses, and you knew the response you'd get. You weren't the only one though.

I hate this time of year. I almost shit a brick yesterday when i realised what day it was. Poor horses.. they're such beautiful, strong, friendly animals :( At least there were no deaths though, from what i've heard.

sensamelia
09-04--2006, 07:26 PM
well, my moneys going on innox ;)
looks like ya lost then
i hate the grand national its horrendous and those bloody fences way too high
that horse that won was knackered on the last stretch and he kept beating it
then people crowding round it awful

gaz or jazz
09-04--2006, 07:27 PM
You didn't discuss your view though. What you said would have been better suited to the general discussion forum, not the animal welfare forum. It was blatantly insensitive to post that after everyone had expressed their concern for the welfare of the horses, and you knew the response you'd get. You weren't the only one though.

I hate this time of year. I almost shit a brick yesterday when i realised what day it was. Poor horses.. they're such beautiful, strong, friendly animals :( At least there were no deaths though, from what i've heard.
i wasnt the first to reply about having a bet thats why i posted here!
sorry if it was insensitive but where better place to discuss the gn but in a thread about gn, it just happened to be about gn cruelty and not in general.:o

uma
10-04--2006, 10:20 AM
Actually people are led to believe that the horses are well looked after and are as sunny put it 'fit and healthy', this is generally not the case at all. They are 'broken' in at a very very young age (doing this causes their backs to stoop when they are older and causes horrendious other problems!), and worked very very hard meaning that their life expectancy is about 7-8 usually. If they live longer than this they are thought of as being 'past their best' and put to the slaughter house, unless someone rescues them. they have awful lives, are pumped full of drugs to keep them calm whilst loading them in the race boxes before the race and also given drugs for them to run faster. They get a different rider all the time, so cannot build a bond with them. All they are loved for is the money they make.
I think its the most disguisting thing ever, and detest anyone who supports or watches the creulty.
In Dharma,
Uma
x x x

*copied and pasted this from the Cheltenam festival thread as thought it is worth noting*

phil
10-04--2006, 10:23 AM
I hate horse racing. Cruel as fuck. I know you'd get a massive dick born as a horse but it still wouldnt be worth it!

Whirler
10-04--2006, 01:07 PM
i wasnt the first to reply about having a bet thats why i posted here!
sorry if it was insensitive but where better place to discuss the gn but in a thread about gn, it just happened to be about gn cruelty and not in general.:oNo, it wasn't even your comment I picked up on originally. As has been said, discussion is absolutely fine, if you have opinions then post them, but you haven't and nor had the person I actually quoted earlier. You both made random comments about your bets - that's not discussion! So by all means, let us know what you think about the GN otherwise continue with your self-censorship!!! :harhar:

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 03:51 PM
ok i agree that posting about the betting aspect of the gn in a cruelty thread was crassly insensitive and apologise but was following otherers although that is no exscuse.
my take on the gn is as follows.
this year one horse died at aintree, nine at cheltenham.The accusations leveled at aintree is that the fences are too big and the distance at four miles and four furlongs is too long.
The fences at aintree are appreciably bigger at aintree and include open ditches and water jumps yet there were eight fewer deaths although one is too many.
Does this mean that the improvements that the clerk of the course has made has lessoned the risk by downsizing the fences or did we get lucky that as terrible as it is only one horse died?
I beleive saturdays death was as a result of an accident and not because the horse was cruelly treated.
I saw horses that had unseated their riders continue to jump fences un aided, this is something i beleive they do naturally.
i dont beleive making a horse do something it was bred to do is an act of cruelty, its something they do naturaly.
I dont beleive that any one who possees a horse training licsense and has nurtured and cared fo a horse would enter them into this race if they thought it was too dangerous for them.
The horses in the gn are the elite in the equine jumping world.

Atomik
10-04--2006, 03:55 PM
I dont beleive that any one who possees a horse training licsense and has nurtured and cared fo a horse would enter them into this race if they thought it was too dangerous for them.Not even if the opportunity for profit was great? Plus, seeing as horses die, it would seem to follow that some horse owners aren't the best judges of what's too dangerous for their horses.

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 03:57 PM
some people on this thread have posted that i discussed my betting knowing what sort of reaction i would generate!
i can honestly say i was so naive and just followed others !

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 04:00 PM
Not even if the opportunity for profit was great? Plus, seeing as horses die, it would seem to follow that some horse owners aren't the best judges of what's too dangerous for their horses.
how would they profit in the death of there horse or putting it at risk.
as they are in the industry and through out the year there are three meetings a day with seven races at each meeting i would say that they know best.

Atomik
10-04--2006, 04:05 PM
how would they profit in the death of there horse or putting it at risk.That's like saying how would a gambler profit by taking a risk. What you're saying doesn't make sense. If the reward is great enough, people take risks.


as they are in the industry and through out the year there are three meetings a day with seven races at each meeting i would say that they know best.Ummmm.... OK. That proves you're right.

Atomik
10-04--2006, 04:36 PM
'gaz or jazz'.... your comments have been split off into a thread in the support forum. (http://www.ukhippy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61405#post61405)

Atomik
10-04--2006, 05:47 PM
there are three meetings a day with seven races at each meeting i would say that they know best.Oh, little snippet for you...


Approximately 15,000 foals are born into the racing industry each year, yet only a third go on to become racers. Those horses who do not make the grade may be killed for pet food, fed to hunting hounds or repeatedly change hands in a downward spiral of neglect. Of those horses who do go on to race, around 375 are raced to death every year.

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 06:46 PM
if they are the facts fair enough, terrible.but like all things probably eminate from some where with a slant in favour.
and remember atom, this thread was about a specific race, you have fallen victim to your own rules.
pot black kettle.

Atomik
10-04--2006, 06:49 PM
if they are the facts fair enough, terrible.but like all things probably eminate from some where with a slant in favour.You could say the same of any fact. All facts originate from people who hold opinions.


and remember atom, this thread was about a specific race, you have fallen victim to your own rules.
pot black kettle.I think you'll find that the converstation rapidly evolved to encompass more than just one specific race. Are you here to contribute something constructive, or just to try and provoke an argument?

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 06:49 PM
it also works out as one horse a day terible!
but as isay three meetings a day seven races,thats a lot of horses who arent as far as we know mistreated.
there is also the word"may"
in there , abit wishy washy.
but now i am well off topic!

Atomik
10-04--2006, 06:51 PM
it also works out as one horse a day terible!Well yeah. Killing animals for the sake of our entertainment is a little barbaric, don't you think?

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 06:53 PM
im not here to provoke after an error,which i made a genuine mistake i was asked by earth whirler to contribute a point about a specific race.
you bolloked me for provoking and telling me i should of put it in a specific thread and now youre saying thread has expanded!
cant have it both ways!
oh but you can as youve got moderater control.

gaz or jazz
10-04--2006, 06:55 PM
Well yeah. Killing animals for the sake of our entertainment is a little barbaric, don't you think?
im not interested solely in entertainment as i like to win money as well.
as i say i beleive they are accidents.
if they are killed then who are the killers?

Atomik
10-04--2006, 06:56 PM
you bolloked me for provoking and telling me i should of put it in a specific thread and now youre saying thread has expanded!You weren't pulled up for being off-topic. You were pulled up for making insensitive comments that contributed nothing to the thread. You've since apologised for this, so I assumed you were clear on that point.


cant have it both ways!
oh but you can as youve got moderater control.Yes, I have. And seeing as all you seem to be doing at this point is making snide remarks, I'm afraid I'm gonna be blocking you from posting any further on this thread. Feel free to take it up in the support forum.

Atomik
10-04--2006, 07:12 PM
im not interested solely in entertainment as i like to win money as well.
as i say i beleive they are accidents.
if they are killed then who are the killers?Gambling is widely believed to be a form of entertainment. Accidents befallen in the course of dangerous pursuits are predictable, and could therefore more accurately be referred to as abuse or neglect.

PeacePiper
10-04--2006, 07:27 PM
i dont beleive making a horse do something it was bred to do is an act of cruelty, its something they do naturaly.

I'd ask you if you believed in cockerel/dog fighting... if you could reply ;)

Atomik
10-04--2006, 07:44 PM
... if you could reply ;)Speaking of which, you are of course welcome to let us know if you intend to play nice, at which point we'll be happy to let you back into this thread. :)

koolaid
10-04--2006, 07:48 PM
awwww I have never been banned from a thread....I am jealous now...:D

Ummm forgot what I was going to write too.....doh!!

Atomik
10-04--2006, 07:50 PM
awwww I have never been banned from a thread....I am jealous now...:D That can be arranged. Might I be able to interest sir in an argument over in the veggie forum? :harhar:

koolaid
10-04--2006, 07:51 PM
he he that was the closest I came....Nah I am a changed koolaid..Much more mellow and passive......except for the occasional swearing fit..:D...I am aiming to get banned from the filthy thoughts forum if anywhere.!!!

Paul
10-04--2006, 07:57 PM
you are of course welcome to let us know if you intend to play nice, at which point we'll be happy to let you back into this thread. :)But he won't be able to read this :whistle:

Atomik
10-04--2006, 07:58 PM
But he won't be able to read this :whistle:Ooops. :o

Whirler
10-04--2006, 08:00 PM
I'd ask you if you believed in cockerel/dog fighting... if you could reply ;)But that would be off topic and we'd have to beat you :harhar: