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joudicaa
25-10--2005, 09:57 AM
and fucking disgusting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4373440.stm :(

Atomik
25-10--2005, 10:52 AM
It's even more disgusting when you conisder how inefficient meat production is. What's the point?

Dapablo
25-10--2005, 11:05 AM
Could use humans though, sign up, and then when I die could put my remains to some use. :)

cymru_jules
28-11--2005, 09:51 PM
I thought it was highly impressive that you could get a big heavy train to move 2.5 miles from one single cow! I was surprised to find that they get the methane from left over organs rather than from manure over a longer period of time.

zig zag
29-11--2005, 02:10 AM
omg :(

lost
03-12--2005, 04:59 PM
They are using the parts of the cow that normaly get thrown away in the meat production. At least now they use all the cow instead of killing them and only using half. Lets face it meat production wont stop, so why not make it greener?

Atomik
03-12--2005, 05:44 PM
That's like saying "well you'll never stop them gassing the jews, so why not use their fat to make candles?"

Dapablo
03-12--2005, 08:03 PM
No, sorry, feel I've got to disagree with that. I think if I was Jewish I might find the above comment a little bit disrespectful, I mean, you choose to compare farming practices with Genocide.

Joel
03-12--2005, 08:11 PM
thats insane, sounds like something from a dodgy 80's gore horror film :|

Atomik
03-12--2005, 08:14 PM
No, sorry, feel I've got to disagree with that. I think if I was Jewish I might find the above comment a little bit disrespectful, I mean, you choose to compare farming practices with Genocide.Yes, I'm absolutely comparing it to genocide. You'll find most vegetarians and vegans feel the same way. Are you a vegetarian yourself?

Dapablo
03-12--2005, 08:24 PM
Yes, I'm absolutely comparing it to genocide. You'll find most vegetarians and vegans feel the same way. Are you a vegetarian yourself?

I am a lapsed vegetarian. Vegetarian also for political not philosphical reasons, don't like the industry.
Most of the planet regard the human animal as philosophically superior to un-human animals, so to associate abuse of humans to that of animals is demeaning in their eyes. I believe the encouragement of vegetarian living can only be undermined by such strong language, most people just won't be capable of handling the emotion, and so the argument will be dismissed.

Atomik
03-12--2005, 08:28 PM
I believe the encouragement of vegetarian living can only be undermined by such strong language, most people just won't be capable of handling the emotion, and so the argument will be dismissed.Tough shit. This sub-forum is a vegetarian and vegan sub-forum. As such, I don't think it's unreasonable for vegetarians and vegans to express how they feel. If you're not comfortable with that, I'd advise avoiding this sub-forum.

Dapablo
03-12--2005, 08:42 PM
Humblest apologies, sorry done it again, second time I've been asked to leave. :(

May I therefore kindly ask that perhaps someone could try painting the pages here a different colour or something. I mean it can be a bit tricky for me remembering which forum my opinion is welcome in, and in which forum it ain't. Just get carried away joining in really, no harm meant.

Atomik
03-12--2005, 08:46 PM
Just to make it absolutely clear in case there's still any confusion vegetarians and vegans are constantly under attack for the opinions they hold. We're used to having to explain/defend/educate, but it sometimes gets a little tiring. This sub-forum is (as explained in the sticky at the top of the sub-forum) intended as a vegetarian and vegan sub-forum where we can discuss issues that are important to us without being expected to explain, educate and defend every five minutes. This is not intended as censorship, as you're quite welcome to advocate contrary points of view in the main forums. Thank you.

Now can vegetarians and vegans please get back to discussing how we feel about the issue raised in the original post! :vomit:

Claerie
03-12--2005, 10:33 PM
If only cows could speak for themselves eh?

click: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/cowswithguns.php :cool:

:reddevil:

Joel
03-12--2005, 10:38 PM
this may be controversal to some, and i dont know why

but i dont see how you could ever equate the suffering of an animal outside our species with our own

i dont see how anyone could say that the death of a cow is exactly the same as the death of a child

its really not the same, humans have far more complex social relasionships than any other animal life on this planet, thus making the suffering worse

to compare the suffering of the jews in germany to the death of cows for meat is extreamly silly, would you say that you couldnt pick between saving a humans life or an animals life?

in practice yeah, but not during the event

i used to believe this very thing that all life was the same as human life, but that simply isnt true

what about swatting flys? or the mass amount of insect life that you tred on every day from purely and innocently walking around? is that genocide, should we all become jayne monks?

cymru_jules
03-12--2005, 11:59 PM
In fairness... I saw, clicked and replied to this thread because I saw it in the "Active threads" box on the right hand side of the front page days ago - didn't realise it was in the veggie forum until you just mentioned it!

Like any topic close to ones hearts - such a sub-forum can sometimes sharply contrast with others, and I can see it becoming a problem again and again with peeps wondering in and not being aware of the rules and being keen to stress their point of view, when it isn't invited.

Having it a different colour would help, though with a steady influx of newbies it might not sort the problem altogether as they wouldn't know what the colour denoted. Maybe make it a private forum which is shown in the forums list but not accessible unless their userid is added to the "ok" list?

I don't think it's fair to jump on somebody because the rules (and sub-rules) are not clear enough! I've since found the sticky topic declaring the veggie rules (which itself contradicts itself in it's own reply) but I wager Dapablo, Spyder and indeed myself had never saw the veggie forum rules before because we didn't arrive at this topic via the sub-forum front end!

The responsibility should lie with the admin's to make sure things go swimmingly and potential conflicts are avoided, as opposed to the user's getting (inadvertently) into mischief. Unless that is, you intend to remove everybody who falls foul of the red tape. I thought that's precisely what UKHIPPY was trying to get away from!?

Look you've got me in a right flap now... IM GOING TO FORM A FORUM USERS UNION and setup a picket line on the front gate!!! ;)

"What do we want?"
"A fair deal for users!"
"When do we want it?"
"Now!"

Atomik
04-12--2005, 01:00 AM
Maybe make it a private forum which is shown in the forums list but not accessible unless their userid is added to the "ok" list?I've actually been considering this. It would be a shame, but it might just come to that.


I don't think it's fair to jump on somebody because the rules (and sub-rules) are not clear enough! I've since found the sticky topic declaring the veggie rules (which itself contradicts itself in it's own reply)Nobody was jumped on. The position was explained. The sticky seems perfectly clear to me, although it's not really that complicated an idea to start with - it's a veggie and vegan support forum.


The responsibility should lie with the admin's to make sure things go swimmingly and potential conflicts are avoidedIt's also the responsibility of posters to ensure that they're familiar with the forum etiquette and to post responsibly. We're not here to wet-nurse people.


Unless that is, you intend to remove everybody who falls foul of the red tape. I thought that's precisely what UKHIPPY was trying to get away from!?Hardly. We've not even come close to banning anyone since the forum started.

And on that note, I think this thread has run its course and is now well and truly heading off topic with no sign of respite. So it's locked. However, should you wish to raise any issues regarding the way the veggie forum is run, you're welcom to do so in the feedback sub-forum. Should you wish to discuss the ethics of using animals for fuel or vegetarianism in general, then you're welcome to do so in the 'general' forum. Have a nice day :D