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View Full Version : World News Pope's comments....



Coyote
16-09--2006, 04:36 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5351492.stm

So....is he siding with "the West(tm)" against Islam.....maybe trying to make the anti-muslim stance synonymous with a christian (catholic) one to maybe draw folks into christianity?

I dont believe it was a mistake or innocent.....

Any other thoughts?

Atomik
16-09--2006, 04:44 PM
Seemed a very ill considered comment to me. Especially after reading it in context.

HALES
16-09--2006, 05:08 PM
dont like him hes got shifty eyes!

Zim
16-09--2006, 05:24 PM
One religeous prick having a go at other relious pricks. thats all i see it as. the comment about the war on iraq is an affront to thier religeon, yet they fail to mention the other attack carried out in the name of islam.

im not condoning anything, im just saying that its so easy to say "you attacked us for our religeon" without mentioning other attacks carried out by the "opposing side".

Westerners are portayed as being "all anti muslim" and muslims are all being portrayed as being "anti western".

PlutoPete
17-09--2006, 11:00 AM
The pope has used his position to fan the flames of religious intolerance, for him to rely on an underling to appologise afterwards shows a lack of sensitivity at the very least.

Den_tokke
17-09--2006, 01:45 PM
the pope should just shut his mouth 'cause the concept "pope" is not even christian I mean I was raised evangelical (i'm agnostic) and I always thought that christians followed jesus not a pope or somebody else therefore he should not say things that could offend muslims and now the muslims think cause he is the leader of the catholic church that catholic people all think like him so he caused a lot of problems without any problems and if people in the west keep doing such stuff (cartoons, pope) there will be a war and we dont need war!!!
peace:hippy:

Atomik
17-09--2006, 01:48 PM
the pope should just shut his mouth 'cause the concept "pope" is not even christian I mean I was raised evangelical (i'm agnostic) and I always thought that christians followed jesus not a pope That depends entirely on your definition of christianity. Although the papal system actually has a much stronger historic claim to be the definitive version than anything else. It's all a load of bollocks though, so I don't really care either way.

*shrug*

Den_tokke
17-09--2006, 02:04 PM
That depends entirely on your definition of christianity. Although the papal system actually has a much stronger historic claim to be the definitive version than anything else. It's all a load of bollocks though, so I don't really care either way.

*shrug*
well christianity for me is a group of people who see Jesus Christ as the son of God and follow his teachings. That's why I still don't understand why people call the catholic system (i don't mean catholics) christian they have murderd and controled people for ages and they lost power thanks to the rennaissance (thank God for the rennaissance) and people like marx and still they are a little bit despotic so its wrong to accuse Islam of being aggresive so they should both concentrate on their one problems instead of accusing each other.

Atomik
17-09--2006, 02:10 PM
well christianity for me is a group of people who see Jesus Christ as the son of God and follow his teachings.If you followed Christ's teachings, there wouldn't be a christian church. And from an evangelical perspective, it'd kinda rule out half the teachings of most 'born again' movements as a lot of them aren't based on anything Christ ever said. But then this is the real problem with Christianity - it can be whatever you want it to be.

aarghapanda
17-09--2006, 03:05 PM
What exactly did he say? It's easy for the media to pull a quote out of context.

DreadyGeordie
17-09--2006, 03:23 PM
What exactly did he say? It's easy for the media to pull a quote out of context.

Key excerts can be found here;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5348456.stm

There is also a link on that page to a pdf file of the full speach.

Les x

annaomerta
17-09--2006, 05:02 PM
Pope Benedict XVI - "At this time, I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reaction in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims. These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought. Yesterday, the Cardinal Secretary of State published a statement in this regard in which he explained the true meaning of my words. I hope that this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with great mutual respect."

Oh, its okay... its medieval! Not offensive at all. :mad:
If he didnt mean it, and didnt believe in it.... he shouldnt have said it!
Ah, I love religious backtracking :) It makes me all angry inside.

gaz or jazz
17-09--2006, 06:24 PM
a former member of the hitler youth and commented on turkey being kept out of the european union.
there were some prettyterrible popes in the past who were in to rape and pillage so perhaps he's holding up the great tradition.
not the kind of comments tho that the world needs at th mo or at any time.

elfqueenofrohan
17-09--2006, 11:51 PM
he shouldn't have said it... that was stupid as he should know how inflamed people get but that kinda thing atm.
but they are kinda proving what he said right... that a lot of people are spreading 'by the sword' what they believe in.

to call it all Muslims is stupid though. A lot of Christians (and everyone other people) have been as bad, but it's true what he says and if Mohammad did say to do that... then... ugh

weecab
18-09--2006, 12:16 AM
absolute piffle!
he knew exactly what he was saying and that he would appologise afterwards.....by then the words are said so the appology is indifferent...just one religion berating another, nothing new there

starcaller56
18-09--2006, 01:26 AM
what has happened to free speech, and why we have to pussyfoot round any religion and their sensibilities is beyond me. they couldnt get to the pope , so they shot a nun in the back how brave and peace loving.

Atomik
18-09--2006, 06:24 AM
what has happened to free speech, and why we have to pussyfoot round any religion and their sensibilities is beyond me.Coming from the catholic church, I think it's simply called hypocrisy.

monkey monkey
18-09--2006, 09:31 AM
a former member of the hitler youth and commented on turkey being kept out of the european union.
there were some prettyterrible popes in the past who were in to rape and pillage so perhaps he's holding up the great tradition.
not the kind of comments tho that the world needs at th mo or at any time.

It was compulsory for ALL children in Germany to join the Hitler youth.

I could go on and defend the pope's speech, saying that it was taken out of context and he was actually emphasising the kind of things that shouldn't be believed or said, but lots of people seem too ready to hate him, so there's not much point.

What I do like is the reaction of some of the Muslim people:

"We're not violent, and if you say otherwise we'll kill you..!"

Atomik
18-09--2006, 09:34 AM
I could go on and defend the pope's speech, saying that it was taken out of context and he was actually emphasising the kind of things that shouldn't be believed or said, but lots of people seem too ready to hate him, so there's not much point.I read the full speech in context before forming an opinion, and it didn't look any better to me.

monkey monkey
18-09--2006, 10:14 AM
I read the full speech in context before forming an opinion, and it didn't look any better to me.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said


Seemed a very considered comment to me. Especially after reading it in context.

Atomik
18-09--2006, 10:20 AM
Sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you saidSorry, that should've read "ill considered". Corrected it now.

monkey monkey
18-09--2006, 10:33 AM
It's a shame the Pope doesn't have the luxury of an 'edit' button.

Atomik
18-09--2006, 10:34 AM
It's a shame the Pope doesn't have the luxury of an 'edit' button.Yeah, he just seems to have 'self destruct' ;)

phil
18-09--2006, 12:18 PM
It seems that you can make jokes, negative comments about any religeon except when you do it with islam there's flag burning, screaming and general violent threatening behavior. Fucking grow up. I'm C of E and see banners waved calling me an infidel and who knows what else all the time. So what. I think its probably fair to say that i care about isalm about the same amount as most muslims care about my religeon.

Atomik
18-09--2006, 12:22 PM
It seems that you can make jokes, negative comments about any religeon except when you do it with islam there's flag burning, screaming and general violent threatening behavior. Fucking grow up. I'm C of E and see banners waved calling me an infidel and who knows what else all the time. So what. I think its probably fair to say that i care about isalm about the same amount as most muslims care about my religeon.The issue for me isn't sayign negative things about Islam as such. It's about the leader of one of the world's largest religious bodies making insensitive comments and inflaming an already volatile situation. If he'd been making some reasoned remarks, then fair enough. But all he was doing was adding fuel to the fire. Not smart.

phil
18-09--2006, 12:28 PM
I'm always surprised with stuff like this, from this high up. I'm sure the pope aint that smart but dont they have advisors etc so somebody could go "whoah thats gonna piss people off big time" and change it for something else. Why doesnt he just speak in latin so nobody will give a shit what he's sayin.

Paul
18-09--2006, 12:30 PM
It does seem that Islamic fundamentailsts take offence at almost anything that criticises their religion. Catholics get criticised a lot but rarely make a fuss about it.

Saying that though, I agree that it wasn't wise to go adding more fuel to a fire that's already raging. But the papacy hardly have a history for tact and diplomacy do they?

The thing is, you can hardly say Christianity is a shining example of a religion with a non-violent history.

Atomik
18-09--2006, 12:31 PM
Why doesnt he just speak in latin so nobody will give a shit what he's sayin.:madlol:

scarlett
18-09--2006, 12:41 PM
You can read the popes comments as a reminder that the west is Christian…the big fear of Christianity is that Islam is getting /been given too much power in the west…it was a not so subtle nudge to to moderate Christians, that the Catholic Church is ‘the true faith’ and throughout history Islam has caused trouble for the west..including stealing back Turkey from the Christians…you cant use logic when dealing with religion…you have to view it has two bears growling at each other…’tis a pissing contest in other words…wind up the Muslims..they’ll attack Christian shrines…point proved…come back to the true path and JESUS will protect you from the muslim hordes….there has got to come a time when those of us who don’t subscribe to mainstream religions, have to stand up and say….go take your dogma and invisible friends …and fight/argue it out away from the rest of us.

matthew
18-09--2006, 02:35 PM
I don't have any view on this apart from not wishing to read what he said or have a view on it. Let all those religous types fight amongst themselves.. it truely is dull. I appreciate other conflicts revolve around religeon..but meh i don't care about what the pope has to say. I don't really want to read all his crap..

elfqueenofrohan
18-09--2006, 10:08 PM
=(
None of it is religion. People who are truly religious don't fight or hurt each other. Or want to.

gordy
19-09--2006, 01:10 AM
=(
None of it is religion. People who are truly religious don't fight or hurt each other. Or want to.

I gotta disagree with that.How could you be a suicide bomber without being religeous?
The thing about churches is that they always abuse power when they get it,you only have to lok at the history of religion in this country to see that,people were burned for being catholic one day and for being protestant the next.depending on which church the current monarch supported.
We still have blasphemy laws here.....why?

Coyote
19-09--2006, 08:02 AM
=(
None of it is religion. People who are truly religious don't fight or hurt each other. Or want to.

Afraid you are not understanding "religion" there elfy - Religion is inherently violent; its the act of tightly binding the world to the will.

Atomik
19-09--2006, 08:37 AM
Afraid you are not understanding "religion" there elfy - Religion is inherently violent; its the act of tightly binding the world to the will.I think she proly means spirituality.

Den_tokke
19-09--2006, 10:47 AM
If you followed Christ's teachings, there wouldn't be a christian church. And from an evangelical perspective, it'd kinda rule out half the teachings of most 'born again' movements as a lot of them aren't based on anything Christ ever said. But then this is the real problem with Christianity - it can be whatever you want it to be.

where I was raised there wasn't really like a cheap born-again thing going on but I think you mean Pentecostal churches (they're verry creepy) and even in the born again movement they follow the teachings of christ but they just add the emotional worship thing. I'm just saying that not every evangelical church is doing the born-again thing.
peace

Atomik
19-09--2006, 10:50 AM
where I was raised there wasn't really like a cheap born-again thing going on but I think you mean Pentecostal churches (they're verry creepy) and even in the born again movement they follow the teachings of christ... selectively, and amongst other things. Jesus never had anything to say on homosexuality, for example. But he did have a lot to say regarding tolerance.


I'm just saying that not every evangelical church is doing the born-again thing.Probably a cultural difference. 'Evangelical' and 'born-again' are interchangeable terms in the UK.

scarlett
19-09--2006, 11:28 AM
more interesting quotes from Pope Ben:reddevil:
on the C of E.."the nullity of Anglican ordinations is a truth to be held definitively"
On Buddhism..he said it proposed.." The possibility of attaining true happiness without any concrete religious obligations-a sort of spiritual auto-eroticism"
so did he mean to insult Islam ?...i think he did...as one of his first acts when ordained was to reduce the powers of the pontifical council for interfaith dialogue...:rolleyes:
holy swords and scimitars will no doubt be clashing more often:angel:

Coyote
19-09--2006, 11:34 AM
more interesting quotes from Pope Ben:reddevil:
on the C of E.."the nullity of Anglican ordinations is a truth to be held definitively"
On Buddhism..he said it proposed.." The possibility of attaining true happiness without any concrete religious obligations-a sort of spiritual auto-eroticism"
so did he mean to insult Islam ?...i think he did...as one of his first acts when ordained was to reduce the powers of the pontifical council for interfaith dialogue...:rolleyes:
holy swords and scimitars will no doubt be clashing more often:angel:

Good :D

They can all piss off the Almagordo, kick seven hells out of each other, then piss off to their respective heavens and leave the earth to the rest of us :D

scarlett
19-09--2006, 11:38 AM
http://www.ukhippy.com/gallery/files/2/9/1/popeandlovecraft.jpg

Coyote
19-09--2006, 11:40 AM
ROFLMAO :D :insane:

scarlett
19-09--2006, 11:43 AM
fnargg;)

Den_tokke
19-09--2006, 02:03 PM
... selectively, and amongst other things. Jesus never had anything to say on homosexuality, for example. But he did have a lot to say regarding tolerance.

well the problem there is that they also follow a big part of the old testament and there it says that is a sin (I do not agree) but Jesus said to judge the "sin" not the sinner and that's where you're right that they're verry hypocrite



Probably a cultural difference. 'Evangelical' and 'born-again' are interchangeable terms in the UK.

well I'm not really sure of waht you mean by born-again (for me its like the pentecostal healing and excessive worschipping and that born-agains can't stop talking about that they're saved by Jesus etc..)

Atomik
19-09--2006, 02:06 PM
well the problem there is that they also follow a big part of the old testamentAgain, very selectively. I don't notice them burning any witches these days, for example. But the old testament is pretty clear on that.


well I'm not really sure of waht you mean by born-again (for me its like the pentecostal healing and excessive worschipping and that born-agains can't stop talking about that they're saved by Jesus etc..)In the UK, it's kinda like this:

"Christians who affirm their renewed and strengthened commitment to their religion are called 'born again'. To be born again is to be 'born of the spirit'; the first birth being the physical birth of the flesh."

Which here at least, is pretty much the same thing as evangelical, fundamentalist etc etc etc.

Coyote
19-09--2006, 02:11 PM
Wikipedia is a wonderful thing :D :whistle:

Atomik
19-09--2006, 02:16 PM
Wikipedia is a wonderful thing :D :whistle:Hence the quotes, muppet. :harhar:

elfqueenofrohan
19-09--2006, 10:06 PM
mm... it argueable either way. maybe what i do mean is spirituality...
but in the Bible it says not to kill anyone. (yeah... i know that it's hypocritical in that that's what everyone in the old testament spent their time doing) So if you're a true follower of God you will not kill anyone.
I can't vouch for other religions, but one of my best friends who is muslim said that the Koran is against murder and all that stuff as well... but i don't know... you're not meant to touch it so I respected that and have not read it.

elfqueenofrohan
19-09--2006, 10:07 PM
btw i'm not standing up for the Pope... I don't like him overly much as a person (compared to John-Paul anyway <3<3<3) but... people twist religion to suit themselves and blacken its name. which is why so many people 'hate religion'.
(this isn't exactly a modern thing i know)

Coyote
19-09--2006, 10:13 PM
mm... it argueable either way. maybe what i do mean is spirituality...
but in the Bible it says not to kill anyone.

Do you mean "Thou shall not commit murder"? It isnt phrased "thou shall not kill" in the original hebrew....

And you also find Jesus telling his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy a sword....

elfqueenofrohan
19-09--2006, 10:19 PM
I didn't quote it, and I can't read Hebrew.
Anyway, murder is the "intentional and unlawful killing of someone". I suppose that begs the questions of whose laws... but it's killing and that's bad.

Coyote
19-09--2006, 10:21 PM
I didn't quote it,

I know you didnt, but you seemed to be refering to the "dont kill" commandment..... :)

elfqueenofrohan
19-09--2006, 10:22 PM
yeah but... what's the difference between killing and murdering?

Coyote
19-09--2006, 10:26 PM
yeah but... what's the difference between killing and murdering?

Murder is killing that is not sanctioned by the state....so killing is allowed in the Jewish/Christian religion(s) if it is state sanctioned.....

elfqueenofrohan
19-09--2006, 10:41 PM
oic. well it's not sanctioned anywhere without good cause is it?
I presume the Pope was talking about terrorism and stuff... and where that took place it wasn't sanctioned by the state so the people doing it were breaking religious laws?? unless it's different for Islam..
fnah.. so hard to judge when i don't know the facts...