Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 24 of 49

Thread: Kids who do not eat meat are not abused!

  1. #1

    Kids who do not eat meat are not abused!

    I found this little gem in the 101 forum and was suficiently irritated to bring it here:

    "Like I said. What you choose to do to your body is your own choice. I do not hate you because you choose to self harm. I might be a little more concerned if you forced a child to eat such a restrictive diet as I see that as child abuse.

    Please god tell me you don't have children.
    Do people really believe this guff? How is my child not eating dead animals remotely linked to child abuse?

    My daughter has never eaten animals, nor will she. To turn it on its head I would say that people that inflict meat on their kids are far more abusive than we are as a family for abstaining. My daughter knows why we do not eat animals and as a result at 5 now chooses to continue that. She is happy and healthy. The kind of logic in the quoted post is about as logical as saying that home education is abusive, or wearing red socks is abusive- it is nonsense.
    Last edited by beagoddessmusic; 17-08--2014 at 11:28 AM. Reason: additional info


  2. #2
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18,996
    Regardless of my opinions, I'm undecided how I feel about text being dragged from another thread in order to be analysed or criticised. I feel the subject could have been approached without the quote.

    So, if the original poster of this wants his comment removed from this thread, I will comply with his wishes. (I know who it is). If he's happy for it to continue then I'll let it remain.

  3. #3
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,266
    Here is a
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    to the original thread so people can read the quote in it's original context.

    paul
    PⒶUL

  4. #4
    Heavenly Creature hippyvik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Rugby
    Gender
    Female
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,050
    I think as a parent, the best thing you can do is teach your children all the facts on a subject in an unbiased way and let them decide for themselves. If you are a meat eater and your child wants to become vegetarian, that's perfectly fine and vice versa. What I do have a problem with is parents who decide the way they live their life is the only way and pressurise their child to do the same, that's just wrong in my eyes. I don't mean when they are little as they can't make decisions so you do what you think is right but as they grow up, they should be allowed to decide what they want and how they want to live their life
    We make a living by what we make.......
    We make a life by what we give......
    The following users think this post is groovy: greenvanman, Rainbomama, Sammy, wurzel

  5. #5
    Ah found it! Moderator FriedOnion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,439
    I think the problem lies in the fact that many people assume we (veg*ns) are clueless about nutrition and therefore only eat the non healthy part of a meal ie chips and boiled potato. My experience has been that a veggy diet is varied and includes many (plant based) sources of nutrients.

    I and most veggies I have known don't need to eat fortified cereals for breakfast as I get all I need from my food. How many non-veggies can say that?

    I agree with hippyvik that we should teach our kids the facts, but I failed at being non-biased. When you see how kids disregard food and then parents bin it I can't help but point out that it used to be a sentient creature with feelings.
    The following users think this post is groovy: applecore, beagoddessmusic

  6. #6
    teaching kids the facts tho will result in them rejecting meat though surely? once people see how horrific it is they do not want to eat it unless they are desensitised or v selfish. parents inflict their views on kids all of the time, but when it comes to not eating animals, how can it be considered to be abusive? i truly believe that "making" my child eat tortured animals is way worse.

    am happy to remove the quote and rephrase if required- i used it because i was stunned (and removed the name)

  7. #7
    Heavenly Creature hippyvik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Rugby
    Gender
    Female
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,050

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by beagoddessmusic
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    teaching kids the facts tho will result in them rejecting meat though surely? once people see how horrific it is they do not want to eat it unless they are desensitised or v selfish. parents inflict their views on kids all of the time, but when it comes to not eating animals, how can it be considered to be abusive? i truly believe that "making" my child eat tortured animals is way worse.
    am happy to remove the quote and rephrase if required- i used it because i was stunned (and removed the name)
    If it teaches them to reject eating meat, that's a good thing :-) I was vegetarian when I was a teenager and if my daughter chooses that route, I will fully support her. She isn't a big meat eater anyway and I often cook something seperate for her x
    We make a living by what we make.......
    We make a life by what we give......

  8. #8
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18,996
    My views are so radical they're probably best kept out of this thread - I do a good enough job of alienating people at the best of times.
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  9. #9

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by hippyvik
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    If it teaches them to reject eating meat, that's a good thing :-) I was vegetarian when I was a teenager and if my daughter chooses that route, I will fully support her. She isn't a big meat eater anyway and I often cook something seperate for her x
    well i forced it on her from birth... but at 5 she has her own mind and chooses to be meat/fish free etc. i was more shocked at the concept of child abuse really. i think it says something when as a society it is deemed normal to eat animals than not and to define parenting by that. that last statement may not have made much sense .... but i know what i mean...
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    - - - Updated - - -


    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Paul
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    My views are so radical they're probably best kept out of this thread - I do a good enough job of alienating people at the best of times.
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    well... i wanna hear it so spill :P

  10. #10
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,266

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by beagoddessmusic
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    am happy to remove the quote and rephrase if required- i used it because i was stunned (and removed the name)
    I am happy for the quote to stay and to put my name to it.

    Paul
    PⒶUL

  11. #11

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    I am happy for the quote to stay and to put my name to it.

    Paul
    thank you. i should've thought about it better. so do you really think that and if so why? :-o

  12. #12
    King of Fish. wurzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    La La Land - Miseryside
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,418
    My brother is a meat eater his wife isn't, when they started a family they decided to feed their 3 boys a vegetarian diet, it was his wife's request as she was the one who would be preparing the majority of the meals for them.
    He continued to eat meat but they never made a fuss or spoke about eating different stuff at the table, the lads are now 12, 10 and 8 and have all recently (within the last 12 months) made their own decision to eat meat, not all at once one after the other.
    Some members of our family were horrified by the idea of having veggie diets for babies, and always pointed that out when the lads were regularly ill or under the weather, that may or may not have been connected to their food it also may have been genetic, who knows?
    Anyhow they are all healthy young lads these days and one may well be gracing the premier league with his football skills in the next few years.
    So was it the healthy diet at the start of their life or the fact that they now eat meat that sees them in such rude health???
    Never judge someone by the opinion of others.

  13. #13
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18,996

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by beagoddessmusic
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    well... i wanna hear it so spill :P
    Well firstly, this is the "vegetarian support forum", and set up for people who are trying to live meat free lives. So in many ways inviting a debate on the values of vegetarianism may not work so well in here - I'm considering moving it. (edit, now moved)

    As for my views, well (and this is the polite version) I believe teaching children to discriminate between species is a form of cultural abuse that's so ingrained most people don't even realise their doing it. People are taught that it's ok to abuse certain species, and because the behaviour is so normalised they go on to become abusers and to pass the same behaviour on to their kids.

    Being taught that eating animals is necessary is a form of abuse, having the process hidden away enables that abuse to continue - and abused people go on to become abusers by turning a blind eye to it, or repeating the lies. It's a socially acceptable cruelty that demonstrates how little we've grown as a species.

    It's very easy to appease your conscience by saying you only eat animals bred specifically for meat, have a good life, get treated ethically etc ... but how many people offering that perspective would be happy to eat a one year old kitten or tuck into the family labrador after a couple of years?

    In the meantime we have all these people saying how much they desire peace on earth - well in my opinion the real revolution needs to start in the kitchen.
    The following users think this post is groovy: applecore, beagoddessmusic, Freejoy, FriedOnion, Rainbomama

  14. #14
    Ah found it! Moderator FriedOnion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,439
    Probably just a good upbringing with parents that gave a crap and encouraged them to be healthy & get off their arses.

    Edit: In reply to Wurzel.
    The following users think this post is groovy: wurzel

  15. #15
    Ah found it! Moderator FriedOnion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,439
    To add to Paul's statement, there seems to be plenty of evidence linking violence in later life with abuse to animals in youth. I don't feel we can grow as a species until we put this wide scale culturally endorsed violence to animals behind us.
    The following users think this post is groovy: beagoddessmusic

  16. #16
    i think that it is the desensitization towards eating animals that is a huge issue. the lack of questioning. yes there are links between animal cruelty and sociopathy etc but surely, people who are eating animals are giving the nod of acceptance to abuse and torture. how then can we expect our kids to be compassionate about any living creature or the planet etc.

    a great example would be my parents- cooing over lambs in the fields but then eating one a few weeks later. how can that be anything other than sociopathic? they would balk at eating a horse, cat or dog so alongside that detachment comes speciesism. why we as a society consider that acceptable to teach children is beyond me...
    The following users think this post is groovy: FriedOnion, Rainbomama

  17. #17
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18,996
    I think most people abhor animal cruelty, and when faced with footage of an animal being killed, even for food, most people will wince at the very least. So, why does this all stop at dinner time?

    The only reason I can think of is that people are taught to disassociate at a very young age - and the more something is repeated, the less sensitive we become.

    Imagine sending a toddler out into a field to play with lambs - would you feed one of those lambs to the child and tell them it was the same creature they were playing with it an hour earlier? How would the child react, how should they react?
    The following users think this post is groovy: beagoddessmusic, FriedOnion, Rainbomama

  18. #18

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Paul
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    I think most people abhor animal cruelty, and when faced with footage of an animal being killed, even for food, most people will wince at the very least. So, why does this all stop at dinner time?

    The only reason I can think of is that people are taught to disassociate at a very young age - and the more something is repeated, the less sensitive we become.


    Imagine sending a toddler out into a field to play with lambs - would you feed one of those lambs to the child and tell them it was the same creature they were playing with it an hour earlier? How would the child react, how should they react?

    i think that is a real wake up call to the reality of cruelty and barbarism that they may have been completely innocent of before. and yet doing that is honest and given the choice most kids would be horrified and rightly so. i think society makes that many excuses for eating animals and perpetuating the abuse of them, that the masses just accept it.

    i did not need to show my daughter the realities of meat eating, but when she asked me about it i told her in a very scaled down form. she was disgusted and could not work out why people thought that this was acceptable. i cannot see her changing her mind- she is very animal focused and wants to be a hunt sab when she grows up
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  19. #19
    Ah found it! Moderator FriedOnion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,439
    I have the same issues with my parents. They sort of understand but then tell me to stop talking about it; they're too old to change apparently...

    The whole horse meat thing was laughable, so much fuss over eating a horse instead of a cow. I might understand if they were keen horse lovers but it seemed to be the public in general.
    The following users think this post is groovy: beagoddessmusic

  20. #20
    mine still think i am having a "phase"
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  21. #21
    UK Hippy Reiki Doula Editor Sarah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Bruton, Somerset, United Kingd
    Gender
    Female
    Age
    43
    Posts
    20,453
    My two littleys now almost 6 and 4 1/2 yrs old have been vegetarian since January 2013 when we all stopped eating meat.

    Occasionally when we're out at an event/family thing, they will choose something meaty or fishy but i always explain to them what it is that they are wanting to eat. Henry likes Tuna but he didn't realise it was meat so now he does know he probably won't choose it again. Cushla is sometimes partial to chicken, quite often she will insist on having a chicken leg or a chicken dipper thing off a buffet but i am always careful to explain that it's chicken like Cosmik, Paxo and Igor in the garden (our pet hens) and sometimes she then doesn't want it, or has a bite and won't eat the rest.

    So i don't think we're abusing our children. Henry is very proud to tell people that we are vegetarians and we are trying to give them the information they need to make informed decisions and as they get older that information will become more full on and involve watching documentaries and the suchlike.

    They both eat a brilliant range of mostly home grown veg and fruit and most of what we cook at home is borderline vegan with only a small amount of moo juice products these days as i despise the dairy industry and want out of it.

    In my humble opinion, feeding children MacDonalds is abuse....as is feeding children anything containing aspartame and monosodium glutamate!!

    Our parents and families are all very respectful of us being vegetarian - lee has been veggie most of his life and i have been on and off for over 20 years... What made me go back to meat was piss poor nutrition but i have got a better handle on it all now and don't get anaemic like i used to.

    Children are born vegan and if breastfed remain vegan until food is introduced at the appropriate developmental stage... So the extension of the initial argument could be that it's abusive to breastfeed? Yeah...maybe not then
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    As long as a child is loved and fed with good nutritional food that has been grown with love and not had to suffer at all, then I'm happy with that
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    If we are to heal the planet, we must begin by healing birthing.
    The following users think this post is groovy: beagoddessmusic, Rainbomama

  22. #22
    Tuning In chrisj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    44
    Posts
    269
    I think this idea comes from people not understanding food. Growing children need lots of protein to grow their bodies. To many people meat is protein, and they aren't aware that you can get protein from other sources. Hence to their way of thinking by making children vegetarian you are depriving them of essential protein, hence abuse. It all comes down to lack of education about what we are eating and how to create a healthy diet.
    The following users think this post is groovy: beagoddessmusic, Fire-Tree

  23. #23
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    In the van
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,723

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by FriedOnion
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    there seems to be plenty of evidence linking violence in later life with abuse to animals in youth.
    Yes what you said is correct but i think you have slightly gotten he wrong end of the stick, its about ppl who torture animals not eat them who often tend to grow into serial killers.
    Also there has been plenty of serial killers who have also been veggie. I also understand that some veggies and vegans class eating meat as murder. But i assume you ment violence towards other humans

  24. #24
    the process of farming and slaughter is torture.....and the majority of people are complicit.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •