THIS WEBSITE NEEDS YOU - SERIOUSLY!
This website has been in arrears for a while & will not survive without your donations! We have over 18000 members & if everyone contributed we would never need to ask for money again. We appreciate that not all of you are in the same financial position, but we do run at a loss - so if you can afford to help then please donate. The progress bar is arbitary & resets every month & there is a thread on running costs here.

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 24 of 174

Thread: GM crops can be good for you and the planet.

  1. #1
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275

    GM crops can be good for you and the planet.

    OK, I have heard the prescribed standard drone...
    If GM is about producing crops which do not get eaten by insects then don't expect me to eat them.
    There are many ways to modify plants, some good and some bad, if you take an apple tree and graft a different variety of apples to a branch you produce a new flavour of apple, if this means that people prefer to eat the new better tasting fruit, I am in favour.
    GM involves taking some bits of different plants and producing a new plant, what's wrong with that.
    OK it is possible to take some bits of a cat and put them into a cat, hmmmm I protest, that does not sound good.
    Suppose you have a banana flavoured strawberry, or a sugar enhanced grapefruit.
    People would eat more fruit which is good for life on earth.
    OK no suppose we build something like( ball park) two giant bamboo rings which go round the equator and grow (bal park) 250 milles up in the atmosphere, it can suck up CO^2 and repair the planet, it is possible to build something like a plant in space which covers the globe like a spherical dome, it could defend against meteorite impact and give shade if need be...
    Of course it would need to be GM and controlled.
    We could cover the deserts in green life and grow new rain forests.
    This in a round and about way is the solution to climate control etc.
    The damage is done, the coal has been burned the CO^2 is there now.
    It is no good turning off the lights, and allowing nature to take its course, that course is disaster and suffering.
    We must repair the planet with nuclear power and GM plants.
    Sitting back, complaining about the spilt milk and opposing the very technology that we need to repair the planet will produce the opposite of the desired result.
    Nuclear power is carbon free, reliable, controllable and will enable the massive reduction in carbon emissions we need and simultaneously keep the lights on, nuclear IS renewable.
    Would you prefer your kids ate sweets or sweeter fruit?

    Peace.


  2. #2
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    on the GM theme , all vaccines are genetically modified in one way or another and I personally like a life without the threat of smallpox ,polio,rubella etc etc ......

  3. #3
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    18,881
    If it wasn't for GM wheat, diabetics would still be using insulin from pigs.

  4. #4
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    Yeh there is that too, I certainly prefer a world without small pox etc. There are big companies making up the rules and the green people are replying with blanket objection to GM, this is not the way forward.
    Some GM is very very bad and some is very very good.
    Organics is about growing food on shit, cholera etc grows on shit.
    Hydroponics etc can produce high quality food which tastes so good that kids prefer it to sweets, ban sweets not hydroponics and GM.
    Time for a re think friends of the earth!

    A poly tunnel economy for the UK, export the best quality food/pharmaceuticals in the world, make money and feed the world.

  5. #5
    Monsanto gets caught adding a fish gene into tomatoes as consumers protest the company's choices.

    Perhaps no GMO story has raised more eyebrows than the fish gene in the tomato story. Who hasn't been warned of (and repulsed at the thought of) fruit that will stare up at us from our plates? Yet Dan Verakis, spokesman for seed giant Monsanto, calls the story a "myth," insisting that "fish genes in tomatoes just don't exist."

    It is these kinds of fish stories, says Verakis, that "fuel the uncertainty" surrounding GMOs. The fact, he says, is that all of Monsanto's products — on the market and in development-use "naturally occurring genes from other plants or, in the case of the insect-resistant products, a gene from Bt." Verakis also says that he knows of no other companies currently working to move animal genes into produce.

    But Jane Rissler of the Union of Concerned Scientists says otherwise: "The fact is, it has been done . . . DNAP [DNA Plant Technology of Oakland, California] was the company — that put the fish gene in a tomato." Rissler acknowledges that the experiment was halted before any products were brought to market, but, she insists, "that is because of the uproar. Believe me, they would be doing it if people were not objecting to it."

    The truth, it seems, lies somewhere in between. According to Scott Thenell, director of regulatory affairs for DNAP, there was an experiment, begun and finished four years ago, that involved an attempt to insert a flounder gene into a tomato to increase the fruit's frost-tolerance. But the results were so pitiful, the experiment was scrapped in the earliest phases. "The initial experiments showed insufficient technical effect to proceed with further experimentation and development," says Thenell.

    Thenell acknowledges that the fish experiment is often raised by opponents of biotechnology in an attempt to shock consumers. But he assures, "This was a product concept that was dropped four years ago, is not under development, nor is it likely to be under development in the future, since it showed so little promise. It simply was not worth pursuing."

  6. #6
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    i seem to remember a while back it was announced that yeast had been modified to not produce alcohol as a by product but to produce an opiate type compound similar to morphine , now if any of that yeast gets into 'wrong' hands its gonna add a whole new dimension to home brew .......

  7. #7
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    The insect resistant aspect I particularly object to...
    If a swarm of locusts turns its nose up at the sawyer... Don't expect me to eat it.

    The morphine expect certainly deserves serious consideraton, cameras on all crops, security electronics etc, regulation?

    A banana mango with sugar coating...gee me more.

  8. #8
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    The British economy, this stuff is big money, banana mangos with nectar coating, stick it in the microwave, eat with chips.
    £1 each for export.

    Deregulate, Brexit now!

  9. #9
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    British biotech and British bio technicians are the best if, not among the best on the planet.
    We do more online trade than any other nation on earth, people buy online here because we can trust our online sellers more than most, Americans don't buy online because they don't trust each other, Europeans have a language barrier to over come.
    Combine the two and export £trillions.
    The NHS and related universities are responsible for the high standard of education of our bio technic people.
    We can lead the world at this.

  10. #10
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    PS that should say, morphin aspect.

  11. #11
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    dunno about cameras on crops , more likely organised crime setting up small breweries or even individuals whacking some in a demi-john and adding sugar and putting it the airing cupboard for a few weeks , you wouldnt even need the demi john once you had the yeast you could go play with an apple tree and get ya smack fresh from the orchard ...

  12. #12
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    Well that's one way of creating a regular market.
    I am opposed to the mophine yeast.
    The stuff should be regulated at the university and if it is a test tube of mophine yeast it should have cameras and security.
    Most stuff does not contain morphine and comes in Greg's sized packages.

    If the underworld could do that it would whether we have feilds full of fruit or not... Legal or not.

    Hydroponic orchards under polythene has got to be good for the planet and humanity.
    If we lead the world at this we make a lot of money, teams of Nepalese people working in poly tunnels.
    They get a work permit, an education, live in dorms and go home at the end of the year with some cash, a mobile phone and the skills to set up on their own when they get home.
    Then we take on the next batch of employees.

    Win win, who needs Europe for labour or market, the world has billions of mouths to feed.
    Cosmetics is also big money and comes from hydro grown poly tunnels.

  13. #13
    Dirty Uncle Bertie... julianthegypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    rugby
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    58
    Posts
    13,939
    I hate to rain on the parade, but GMO's are produced for one reason only and that is to make profits for the companies that produce them. Never mind fish genes, the biggest problem with them is that peasant farmers are being coerced into absolute dependency on foreign companies who will ream them so hard that they can barely survive. Already, there are laws being passed to prevent farmers saving their own seed, under some pretext or other, and with intense lobbying from the monsantos of this world. Buy gm seed from monsanto and you then spray it with round up, also from monsanto etc, and if you don't, your crop will fail. This is the exact opposite of all the work that has been done in the developing world promoting resilience among small farmers. The UN FAO has even come out and said that if we want to feed the world, then we need a massive increase in small farmers, in the uk context they would mean smallholders. If you wanted greater yields in Britain, simply split the hundreds of 1000 acre plus farms into tens of thousands of small holdings and you would have no need of gm crops in the first place. As for cholera, don't make me laugh, it's typically spread by infected water supplies, not from vegetables. If in doubt, wash your crops in clean water before you eat them. I spent over twenty years living in the tropics eating food from god knows where and I never got cholera and only had a bad dose of the trots a couple of times, which is what you'd expect in England with all our lovely plastic wrapped supermarket shit. As for the fish thing, I remember back in about 1985 seeing an article in Time magazine where they'd spliced a gene from a glow worm into a tobacco plant and made it glow in the dark. They were doing it to enable them to study the plant better, but the bigger problem is that we start splicing things and they end up going wild, cross pollinating and we end up with some really nasty weeds. Apparently most corn is now contaminated with gm genes by natural cross pollination. That's going to make it much harder to maintain pure seed stocks for hybridization or heritage seeds that need to be kept in case things go wrong and disease wipes out our latest super duper varieties. I have twenty five years experience of tropical farming and I can tell you that if you give a rats arse you should be very worried about gmo's in the food chain.
    Rant over!
    Yawn I'm so tired with this big bag of coal on my head...
    The following users think this post is groovy: BigNich, Chazz, Ecobob, FriedOnion, greenvanman, ma bungo, oldkeith, r3ubs

  14. #14
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Midlands
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,543
    You're quite right, Julian. Totally agree on all counts. The amount of disinterested scientific research done on GMO 's is minimal. Most of it has been funded by companies like Monsanto that want to create control, and from control, profit beyond the dreams of avarice.
    I thought of commenting earlier, but figured that these were a couple of rambos rambling away in the lizard lounge, so I'd let them alone.
    Now if they'd posted in the Self-Sufficiency section....
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    The following users think this post is groovy: Chazz, Ecobob, FriedOnion, greenvanman, julianthegypsy, r3ubs

  15. #15
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    Right well I can see some of the points being made in the last two posts.
    Big business controlling the seeds, I disagree with the control of seeds in this way, governments should be in control of the varieties on sale not business.
    A national food authority or some such called for.
    I disapprove of the growing for anti insect properties, if bees don't like them I will trust the taste of the bees not the manufacturers.
    Now the system you talk of is one in which the seed manufacturers make the money selling high value seeds. I suggest their ability to do this is restricted.
    I would like to see the profit coming from the produce not the seeds.
    I will may be do a different thread about this next bit when I have time. ( there is also infrastructure including rail,canals,road,sewage,electric,river optic etc) suppose we compulsory purchase a strip of land from Inverness to Dover, it is a mile wide( in reality it would be wide at some points and narrow at others) We put on it poly tunnels and feilds, we grow plants and export them in foil trays and frozen.
    It is very simple but it is worth £trillions per year, more than our entire economy.
    The post above is a blanket objection to GM, in reality some GM is good and some bad. The nectar coated banana mango or coconut pinaple, the strawberry pear etc are good for the health, the planet and business.
    A total ban on all GM is the opposite of environmentally friendly, you anti GM people should be ashamed of your selves.

  16. #16
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    As I see it genetic modification has been around since the dawn of life , how do you think viruses work ? , quite simply we homo sapiens have learnt from them in order to try to beat them. The 'vegetables staring up at you ' quip is plain nonsense in that the gene used was promote frost tolerance NOT to produce eyes (why would anyone invest time and money trying to get a cabbage with eyes ? ) , like it or not we are top of the food chain and as a species very successful in terms of colonisation of this planet , also quite good at reproduction and consequently the planet is a mess because of us , the selective breeding of livestock that we have done for millenia is basic genetic modification but nowadays can be done in test tubes ,surely if a crop can be made more reliable/hardy and produce more with same nutrients it must be a good thing ?

  17. #17
    Dirty Uncle Bertie... julianthegypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    rugby
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    58
    Posts
    13,939

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by piratepaul
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Right well I can see some of the points being made in the last two posts.
    Big business controlling the seeds, I disagree with the control of seeds in this way, governments should be in control of the varieties on sale not business.
    A national food authority or some such called for.
    I disapprove of the growing for anti insect properties, if bees don't like them I will trust the taste of the bees not the manufacturers.
    Now the system you talk of is one in which the seed manufacturers make the money selling high value seeds. I suggest their ability to do this is restricted.
    I would like to see the profit coming from the produce not the seeds.
    I will may be do a different thread about this next bit when I have time. ( there is also infrastructure including rail,canals,road,sewage,electric,river optic etc) suppose we compulsory purchase a strip of land from Inverness to Dover, it is a mile wide( in reality it would be wide at some points and narrow at others) We put on it poly tunnels and feilds, we grow plants and export them in foil trays and frozen.
    It is very simple but it is worth £trillions per year, more than our entire economy.
    The post above is a blanket objection to GM, in reality some GM is good and some bad. The nectar coated banana mango or coconut pinaple, the strawberry pear etc are good for the health, the planet and business.
    A total ban on all GM is the opposite of environmentally friendly, you anti GM people should be ashamed of your selves.
    Why should I be ashamed of myself? I oppose fracking too, should I be ashamed of that too? The reasons are actually quite similar. The government tells us that fracking is completely safe. They tell us that we have stronger regulations than in America so accidents couldn't happen...while watering down the safety standards. And the first time they do any serious testing, oh look, Lancashire has an earthquake. But don't worry, that was an isolated incident and would never happen again right? There is no chance of polluting the aquifers of course...except that we don't actually know where all the stuff we put down the holes is actually going, but that's a minor detail right? Oh and of course since it's so far underground it would be a good place to dump nuclear waste too, since there's no way it would ever find its way into our water of course... Most importantly, it's going to make huge amounts of money for our corporate sponsors, and surely that's good for everyone right? I mean, where would we be without caudrilla sponsoring our prime minister for goodness sake! Same applies with GMO's. In the real world, they will only be used to make shit loads of money for corporations at the expense of poor peasant farmers, and consumers who will be forced to eat flavourless shit because its resistant to fruit flies. Anyone who seriously believes otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Yawn I'm so tired with this big bag of coal on my head...
    The following users think this post is groovy: Ecobob, FriedOnion, greenvanman, oldkeith, r3ubs

  18. #18
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    would you agree that energy from sustainable trees in better than fracking ? ,if so consider the Eucalyptus , fast growing and good for bio fuels etc .BUT they dont grow everywhere that we would like them too so bring in a gene from a small flowering plant that gives the tree more tolerance to frost and bingo lots of sustainable fuel where there was previously none.

  19. #19
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    My opinions on burning stuff as opposed to fracking, I think we should use nuclear which is carbon free, the earth is not harmed by using nuclear power, we need power to repair the planet.
    Solar does not work at night, it is not controlled, what you get is what the sun gives, not what we want/need when we want it. It produces surplus in July and next to nothing in January when we need it. ( don't get me wrong, I have 1600 watt solar on my off grid boat)
    Similar with wind it only works when the wind blows and output is proportional to wind speed.
    So we need power stations to fill the gaps, the options are gas, coal, biofuel or nuclear, nuclear is carbon free. Save the planet and support Hinckley, I am an .... Ant, anti nuclear protestor, protestor. Prepare for the Hinckley counter demo.
    Fracking as such is no different to coal or gas acquired by other methods, I oppose burning carbon including bio fuel, I am not saying fracking is good but its no worse than the north sea operations.
    Electric cars and nuclear power is the most environmentally friendly option, the only realistic option.
    As for trees I am all in favour, the more the better, GM super trees, cover the deserts with trees and it will rain in what was the desert.
    Grow super trees around the equator, something like two gas filled tubes, miles across, take off in space ships from the top, drive up into the branches, fly in aircraft through the biological tubes.
    Call that 2 ring pairs, and grow another two, 2 ring pairs which cross at the poles, then fill the gaps similar to a poly dome, all equilateral triangles, this is mathematically possible, if a bit far fetched.
    Repair the planet, not let nature take its violent course.

  20. #20
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    I spose biofuel is better than fracking but not exactly good for the planet.
    The peat bogs of the isle of Lewis are the biggest carbon sink on earth, moss grows and turns into peat thus capturing the carbon, we could grow GM super moss and dry it out, roll it up like a carpet, export to the desert, unroll it, add water and it springs back to life, cover the earth in green. Other systems are available.
    Of course we need ships, and power to build them.
    And power for everything else, the more we have got the more we can do.

  21. #21
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    Bio materials.
    Stuff like tooth enamel, bone and cartilage are possible.
    Rather than bio fuels, bio building products, stuff like plastic and polythene could be produced.
    Suppose you have a male and female boat mould and fill the gap with nutrient solution, grow a plant in the solution and when you remove the mould you have a boat, the same technique could be used for all sorts of things ,like cars,laptops, phone cases etc etc.
    Buckets, dustpans, wellies etc.

  22. #22
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,507
    Ahh bio materials such as bone grafts can be made from spiders webs (weight for weight 6 times stronger than steel) , problem is spider farms do not work as they tend to eat each other , solution ... put the web spinning gene in to a goat, the goat then unknowingly produces milk from which spiders web silk can be spun and utilised , I am not saying this is ethically correct but it is another use of GM for medical reasons

  23. #23
    Tuning In
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    houseboat
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    275
    Yeh well sensible GM, like you say spiders webs have some special properties.
    I wonder if I could modify myself and duff over bat man.
    Regulation, some of this stuff should not be used.
    Suppose the goat ascapes and takes over the planet, ...
    I think stuff like Coco potatoes, etc are OK.
    There enough grey squirrels, rhododendrons, Japanese knotmweed, gold fish, Cray fish etc that GM can't be any worse.
    One thing we can say is it will be of great benefit to health and planet.

  24. #24
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Midlands
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,543
    You may have good intentions, piratepaul, but the way you flick over the problems involved in the various forms of technology that you espouse suggests you may not know very much about the actual science involved. I have heard the same optimistic rantings from other folks too, generally when they were spaced-out to some degree or other.

    Back in the 1950's when I was a kid, the big thing was 'Atoms for Peace'. We were all going to have domestic electricity for free, produced by nuclear power. There would be so much produced, so incredibly cheaply, that even heavy industry would have very modest bills to pay once a year. This was the dream, the 'vision', the future of nuclear power. Like all such 'visions' promoted by the corporate state, it was bullshit. Now only 60 years later we have the prospect of closing many nuclear plants that will need to be tended maintained and safety-checked for the next 20,000 to 30,000 years. Somebody will have to be paid to do this, so nuclear power in reality becomes very expensive, because we who produced this expensive electricity are making our children's children's children pay for it, so far as we can see, way up into the future. Any technology that mortgages the future to feed the now is a no-hoper; the glorious future never comes, because people are still paying the huge debts of the past.

    Science itself brings us many wonderful things, but when science is controlled by massive multi-nationals for their own ambitions to rule the world, it is usually not good science. Exactly the same can be said of a totalitarian dictatorship which uses some aspects of science to gain its own ends. Genetic modification is quite a different thing to selective breeding, which latter proceeds quite slowly, and can usually be easily halted if it goes wrong.
    Perhaps you would like to discuss how bad genetic modification can be halted, for example?
    In a word, it can't. Once out there, it's out there, and will run its course.
    The following users think this post is groovy: BigNich, FriedOnion

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •