View Poll Results: How will you vote on EU membership?

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  • Remain

    42 48.84%
  • Leave

    36 41.86%
  • Not allowed to vote

    3 3.49%
  • Choosing not to vote

    5 5.81%
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Thread: The ukh "Remain or Leave?" Poll

  1. #1
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    The ukh "Remain or Leave?" Poll

    So, how are you planning to vote in forthcoming EU membership referendum?

    I've chosen not to add the option of "undecided" as you still have time to make your mind up
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  2. #2
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Leave. I want to see the dark~side. As an Island we could become one of the most desired Countries in which to live in. Freedoms until now only campaigned for. Self reliant, confident, proactive, compassionate, economical, wealthy.
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  3. #3
    Heavenly Creature
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    Leave. From the money it costs to be in, to problems with the EU on the horizon, staying in is a bad idea. Thank god we didn't join the euro!!
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  4. #4
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
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    I will not be voting because it is futile I believe. We will not be allowed to leave unless it suites the powers that be.

    Voting does not work because the system is broken

    paul
    PⒶUL
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  5. #5
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aman
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    I will not be voting because it is futile I believe. We will not be allowed to leave unless it suites the powers that be.

    Voting does not work because the system is broken

    paul
    And of course some people can't be arsed to even give it a go, to try and see for themselves along with the other million plus who are thinking sod it, nowt changes only time and that's down to the government how much time they give us! Dddddrrrr come on, it won't change if the people won't change. Change your head and the rest will come after. You will still be one of those who complain if you don't bother to use your vote.
    On the other hand. If your going to vote to stay in, status Quo, Your bluddy right Paul, we need more of you that think fk it. What's the point. It's only going to be a government who tell us what to do and when if not how to do it.
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  6. #6
    Heavenly Creature Levey's Avatar
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    Voting to leave , time to be a bit more self-sufficient with a possibility of us having to make stuff again... industry .. I can remember that
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  7. #7
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    Those Mountains that you're carrying, you were only supposed to climb.
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  8. #8
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    I'm going to vote to remain.

    Generally I think that we're stronger and have more influence with a larger audience (500 million as opposed to 67 million) and we need to be protected from our own government ... imagine workers rights under the Tories without the EU to hold them back?

    Also, animals. I made this list yesterday, and while it doesn't go far enough, these are all things that the EU has done...

    Banned veal crates (and there's an ongoing campaign to ban live veal transport entirely)
    Banned restrictive sow stalls for pigs
    Banned animal testing on cosmetics (and the sale of)
    Banned the use of great apes in research
    Banned the import of cat and dog fur
    Banned the trade in seal products
    Banned leghold traps
    Banned whale killing and the import of whale products
    Banned the use of driftnets and is working to reduce marine litter
    Banned tail docking
    Banned (non-enriched) battery cages for hens
    Cracked down on the trade in illegal ivory
    Recognised animals as sentient beings in order to improve welfare standards
    Introduced stringent zoo inspections and licencing
    Introduced legislation to protect habitats of endangered species
    Worked to reduce pollution throughout the EU
    Legislated on EU wide food labelling, thus making it easier to find allergen/animal-free products.

  9. #9
    Heavenly Creature
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    All fair points Paul. The only problem is, we all know the other countries of the EU see many of the laws advisory or optional, if they don't like a law they don't observe it. The French particularly are good at this.
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  10. #10
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by vanwoman84
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    All fair points Paul. The only problem is, we all know the other countries of the EU see many of the laws advisory or optional, if they don't like a law they don't observe it. The French particularly are good at this.
    It's because, despite what people think, the EU still recognises the sovereignty of individual countries and mostly get involved in matters that affect everyone as a whole. So, for instance, tail docking is not banned in the UK if a vet carries it out.

    To say "well they break the rules" or "they do things differently" should never be an excuse to dump those rules or intentions completely.
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  11. #11
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    And of course some people can't be arsed to even give it a go, to try and see for themselves along with the other million plus who are thinking sod it, nowt changes only time and that's down to the government how much time they give us! Dddddrrrr come on, it won't change if the people won't change. Change your head and the rest will come after. You will still be one of those who complain if you don't bother to use your vote.
    On the other hand. If your going to vote to stay in, status Quo, Your bluddy right Paul, we need more of you that think fk it. What's the point. It's only going to be a government who tell us what to do and when if not how to do it.
    I am choosing not to vote not because I can't be arsed but because I believe it will make no difference. It is all part of a massive plan and your welfare is not part of that plan.

    Better to ignore it and get on with your own life

    Paul
    PⒶUL
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  12. #12
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aman
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    I believe it will make no difference. It is all part of a massive plan and your welfare is not part of that plan.
    How do you draw that conclusion?

    Don't get me wrong, I think most politicians are self-serving, but the benefits of EU membership, including workers rights, equal pay rights, animal welfare, free movement of people, the scope for trade agreements and many years of peace in Europe are clearly demonstrable.

    The difference with this referendum is that it's not party politics, it's not about personalities or the same people always getting into office or nothing ever changing, it's a bit more than that and could radically alter everyone's lives.

    There are arguments for leaving the EU, not that I agree with them, but this is bigger than any general election, probably the most important election in our lifetime and, should we all choose to leave, will most definitely make a massive difference.
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  13. #13
    Heavenly Creature
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    Aman, unfortunately, there's a lot of truth in what you say.
    I always say it's not about safety or security, it's always about money. Not EU, but for instance Westminster are turning off most of their CCTV cos they say it's costing too much. Yet they are leaving on the ones that point at box junctions and other road locations that they net fines from.
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  14. #14
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    I'm going to vote to remain.

    Generally I think that we're stronger and have more influence with a larger audience (500 million as opposed to 67 million) and we need to be protected from our own government ... imagine workers rights under the Tories without the EU to hold them back?

    Also, animals. I made this list yesterday, and while it doesn't go far enough, these are all things that the EU has done...

    Banned veal crates (and there's an ongoing campaign to ban live veal transport entirely)
    Banned restrictive sow stalls for pigs
    Banned animal testing on cosmetics (and the sale of)
    Banned the use of great apes in research
    Banned the import of cat and dog fur
    Banned the trade in seal products
    Banned leghold traps
    Banned whale killing and the import of whale products
    Banned the use of driftnets and is working to reduce marine litter
    Banned tail docking
    Banned (non-enriched) battery cages for hens
    Cracked down on the trade in illegal ivory
    Recognised animals as sentient beings in order to improve welfare standards
    Introduced stringent zoo inspections and licencing
    Introduced legislation to protect habitats of endangered species
    Worked to reduce pollution throughout the EU
    Legislated on EU wide food labelling, thus making it easier to find allergen/animal-free products.
    Paul most if not all of those things would have come about in this country as a matter of course.
    We the people, the campaigners, the voters have made this happen. OK other EU countries have promoted some, if not as joint best practice and borderless education, awareness. Some of the EU countries have been dragged along. Some very unwilling. Look how hard it was to get farrowing crate use reduced, then to get them banned. We are one of those most proactive countries. We the voters, the campaigners can take it as far as the majority voters want it to go. So we can do it, faster, without being held back by other (not so willing Countries)
    You talk about this government scaring you? What are you doing with those Dr martins? Polish is for removing blood too.
    We/ the people have always fought for our rights, our beliefs and for our fellow workers. It doesn't stop with the consensus of the EU saying when enough give, is enough win.
    We need solidarity, majority voting. Not vague apathy that now comes with the man on the street.
    We still have far to go. Even if it's just a few tiny countries. We can control local pollution, we can make a local difference. We can also continue as we are, with permitted EU pollution levels set today. Most of our home made air born pollution, goes up out of our chimneys and gets blown over Europe, Norway, even venturing on to Russia. Our seas are farmed at the expense of a EU treaty. Not for the good for our local fish stocks, but for a fair EU wide fishing policy, keeping large fishing fleets from central Euroupe from going bust. We have our daily rights and concerns watered down for the good of the masses. Not assessed on local needs but a wider policy.

    If at a time when the majority feel the government needs a change in direction. We the people, the voters, the majority can and often do, bring them to book or bring them down. You shouldn't be the one in fear. The government should fear us. The people.
    The EU is a talking shop for noisy spokesmen. If enough Euro MP,s are effected by what they hear, they give support and quickly. We have the same structure closer to home, with just the same ability to enforce policy, change broken systems and make a local difference. We the UK. Here and now.
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  15. #15
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Paul most if not all of those things would have come about in this country as a matter of course.
    We the people, the campaigners, the voters have made this happen.
    Some of these laws were resisted by the UK, but the EU pushed them through anyway and forced us to comply.

    In some cases the UK was instrumental, but having the ability to influence the law for 500 million people is far better than influencing regulation for a mere 68 million.
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  16. #16
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    Some of these laws were resisted by the UK, but the EU pushed them through anyway and forced us to comply.

    In some cases the UK was instrumental, but having the ability to influence the law for 500 million people is far better than influencing regulation for a mere 68 million.
    Not if the majority of those 68 million want different things to what the EU are entrenched in. Best practice is worth perusing most of the time.

  17. #17
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Not if the majority of those 68 million want different things to what the EU are entrenched in. Best practice is worth perusing most of the time.
    When it comes to animal rights and welfare, it's always important to consider the victims. If 68 million people all want to continue a cruel practice, then a democratic vote shouldn't really be a consideration.

    However, most of the objections in these cases don't come from the general population, they come from business owners and shareholders worried about their profits.

    Right now we have a Tory government that make Margaret Thatcher look like a communist hippy - and without the protection of the EU I pretty much guarantee we'll see far more cuts to services, rights and welfare than ever before, and for every cut they make Brexit will be blamed.
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  18. #18
    journeyman rumpusmany's Avatar
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    I shall be voting out.Europe is broken,look at the economies of Greece,Spain,Portugal,Italy all buggered.Take a look at our roads the amount of German cars zooming around.The doom and gloom mob telling us nobody will trade with us and it takes years to sort out deals,all cobblers.I was in business I was never prejudiced I would take anybodys money if they wanted a trade.When I see the likes of Kinnock being dragged out of the woodwork extolling the EU, is he saying it for the people or for his own personal gain.Mr and Mrs Kinnock have ridden the EU gravy train for years.Along with thousands of others.
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  19. #19
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    My 2p worth

    It will make no difference whatsoever, those in power will do as they wish regardless of the way the voters vote. After all, How are we to REALLY KNOW if the votes are really counted properly? In the grand scheme of things voting is there for one reason, to make 'YOU' the Voter feel as if you are "Doing Something" to help make change......it is in effect a Placebo. when in actual fact it doesnt matter.. Politicians and governments have never kept their promises, and I truly believe no matter which way we vote, we will still be in the same situation, if not worse.
    Those Mountains that you're carrying, you were only supposed to climb.
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  20. #20
    Heavenly Creature
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    The trouble is, no matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in. The 'leading' party is only a figurehead or face, the real power is wielded by the faceless civil servants. Yes Minister? It's a documentary......
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  21. #21
    Heavenly Creature parrotandcrow's Avatar
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    The vote rigging has already started.


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  22. #22
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by parrotandcrow
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    The vote rigging has already started.
    In the words of Pink Floyd....... " Mother should I trust the Government?" I think NOT!
    Those Mountains that you're carrying, you were only supposed to climb.
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  23. #23
    Heavenly Creature r3ubs's Avatar
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    I'm with Paul on this.

    The vote leave campaign is fuelled by xenophobia and delusions of grandeur.

    The EU is not perfect, but we cannot afford to lose the protections offered to us by the EU...Certainly not with this government which will only drift further to the right under Boris... Terrifying!
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  24. #24
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    This got posted on my Facebook timeline about half an hour ago
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