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Thread: The temple of Baal

  1. #1
    Amateur photographer EnglishLens's Avatar
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    The temple of Baal

    Recently, a replica of the gateway to the Temple of Baal was built in New York City. The original was destroyed by the Islamic State in Syria. The replica seems to have created quite a bit of controversy. What do you think about it?


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  2. #2
    Heavenly Creature parrotandcrow's Avatar
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    The bloke who sees it as a harbinger of doom talks about turning away from god and practising sexual immorality. He lost me right there - just another weirdo who wants to know and control what other people are doing in their own bedrooms.

  3. #3
    The truth is out there NomadicRT's Avatar
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    I think its good.theyve managed to recreate it for archeological purposes ...its a shame that the original one wss destroyed by religious nutters and this new one is being criticised by another religious nutter...obviously theyve nothing better to do with their lives and dont approve of anyone else doing anything either.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...

  4. #4
    Comfortably Numb Rick69's Avatar
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    Its funny how we go on about isis destroying religious artefacts. Obviously to some people its very important, but if its not the original it cant have the same significance.
    However, people conveniently forget the millions killed, religious artefacts destroyed, people tortured etc all in the name of Christianity.
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  5. #5
    The truth is out there NomadicRT's Avatar
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    All religions speak the speak -of tolerance of other fsiths - but theyre all guilty of destroying icons and artifscts they dont like...a grest loss to history and archaeology because of ignorsnce and bigotry.I dont think in this csse its snything.more than.celebrsting the architecture.Though rebuilding rrligious structures in the original.sites in theory hsve less significance the reality is most religious sites where churches or temples.stsnd have often bern rebuilt or altered many times..
    Whst cant be replsced is the history and crsftsmanship thst went into them....like the gisnt buddhas destroyed in afghanistsn or the temples in palmyra .
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...

  6. #6
    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    Or the trade in stolen artifacts going on by western theives at present,sacred idols robbed from Nepal and Tibet,the dead robbed of their sacred rest dug up by archaeologists and stuck in museums for us to gawp at.Sacred temples and tombs robbed by the English for museums.What is that greek? massive marble frieze we nicked for our museum and wont now give back?Spanish gold from melted sacred aztec relics ?Humans are a theiving ,disrespectful species,adapting the rules to suit their needs/wants.Historical artifacts are actually old relics that have little value to the future apart from knowledge that can be gained from them and the ingot weight of course,the rest is sentimentality.After all what good will a monolith be when armageddon is staring in our faces?

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    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cricket
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    Or the trade in stolen artifacts going on by western theives at present,sacred idols robbed from Nepal and Tibet,the dead robbed of their sacred rest dug up by archaeologists and stuck in museums for us to gawp at.Sacred temples and tombs robbed by the English for museums.What is that greek? massive marble frieze we nicked for our museum and wont now give back?Spanish gold from melted sacred aztec relics ?Humans are a theiving ,disrespectful species,adapting the rules to suit their needs/wants.Historical artifacts are actually old relics that have little value to the future apart from knowledge that can be gained from them and the ingot weight of course,the rest is sentimentality.After all what good will a monolith be when armageddon is staring in our faces?
    Just one question, what are you talking about?

  8. #8
    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    hi ayami, Building the temple replica in new york after the original was destroyed by isis and thehypocricy of Western outrage at the desecration of holy relics when we are doing exactly the same and have been doing so for aeons.A lot of fuss about an ancient artefact when we need to focus on solving problems here and now.All the money spent on lavish recontruction would be better spent getting more places for the homeless freezing on the streets tonight.How is that not clear ?

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    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cricket
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    hi ayami, Building the temple replica in new york after the original was destroyed by isis and thehypocricy of Western outrage at the desecration of holy relics when we are doing exactly the same and have been doing so for aeons.A lot of fuss about an ancient artefact when we need to focus on solving problems here and now.All the money spent on lavish recontruction would be better spent getting more places for the homeless freezing on the streets tonight.How is that not clear ?
    Fair enough but was the part about Armageddon staring us in the faces that confused me.

  10. #10
    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    hi ayami,armageddon our doom ,is here now.Instead of focus on easing the environmental precipice we all now teeter towards we are building replica temples etc.Anything odd about that occuring in your mind?
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    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cricket
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    hi ayami,armageddon our doom ,is here now.Instead of focus on easing the environmental precpice we all now teeter towards we are building replica temples etc.Anything odd about that occuring in your mind?
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    No, but you'll be the first to know when the oddness in my mind starts.

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    Originally Posted by cricket
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    hi ayami, Building the temple replica in new york after the original was destroyed by isis and thehypocricy of Western outrage at the desecration of holy relics when we are doing exactly the same and have been doing so for aeons.A lot of fuss about an ancient artefact when we need to focus on solving problems here and now.All the money spent on lavish recontruction would be better spent getting more places for the homeless freezing on the streets tonight.How is that not clear ?
    I wasn't aware that anyone was carrying out cultural destruction , vandalising or destroying sites of cultural heritage in the way that Isis and other islamic theocracies are doing now. I think that you would have to go back a few hundred years to find examples of anyone doing such things in the name of Christianity ,done purposely to eradicate any trace of a different theology.

    Their was a huge amount of of religous art destroyed during the reformation and the English civil war in the 1640's and indeed the buildings and monastries that housed them ruined.It is estimated that only 10% of medieval art survived this period.Books and music were also destroyed and many of the great Abbeys fell into ruin. This destruction was happening all over Europe due to the reformation ,sculptures toppled and defaced ,stain glass windows smashed, manuscripts,painted panels and church fittings burnt on bonfires.

    True that around the fourth century some early christians defaced and destroyed some pagan temples in the middle east including some statues of the famous parthenon temple that stands on the Acropolis in Athens. The destruction of the temple of Zeus at Apamea in Syria can also be attributed to early Christians.

    In 1860 the summer palace in China was destroyed by English and French troops but this was done in retaliation after a delegation under a flag of truce were tortured and murdered , nothing to do with theology.

    Their was the destruction of the Maya codices and the suppression of the Maya by the Spanish priest Diego d Landa that took place in 1562.

    Heritage sites have been destroyed in wars ( Croatian etc . )and some have been destroyed for what some might call progress .So far as been destroyed for a particular theology very few when compared to the (old and modern) history of cultural heritage destruction that has been carried out in the name of Islam .
    This destruction has been carried out in countrys like - Afghanistan , the Buddhas of Bamiyan destroyed by taliban in 2001.

    Bahrain - 43 shia mosques destroyed by the government during the Bahraini uprising in 2011,

    China, Buddhist murals defaced .

    Egypt in the late 12th century when the sultan at the time destroyed part of the pyramid of Menkaure.

    India has had far too many hindu and jain temples , palaces ,mansions and monuments sacked and completely destroyed by succesive muslim armys over hundreds of years .

    In Iraq after the us invasion many museums and archaeological sites were looted by the local population.
    Isis have destroyed much cultural heritage in areas it controls , at least 28 religous buildings have been looted and destroyed ,including shia mosques ,tombs, shrines and churches. On top of that numerous ancient,medieval sites and artifacts including the ancient cities of Nimrud and Hatra ,parts of the wall of Nineveh the ruins of castles and artifacts from the mosul museum were also destroyed.
    In Israel after the occupation by the arab league in 1948, jewish sites were systematically destroyed all but one of the 35 synagogues of the jewish quarter demolished.

    Sufi shrines demolished by Isis in Libya.

    Buddhist and hindu artifacts destroyed ,museums ransacked and most of the Buddhist physical history of the Maldives obliterated , this happened in 2012.

    In Mali the libraries of Timbuktu ransacked ,priceless manuscripts destroyed.
    In the swat valley of Pakistan many Buddhist carvings and statues destroyed or defaced by Taliban and their dynamite.

    In Saudi Arabia various mosques tombs and other areas of historical interest particularly those related to early islam have been destroyed by the ruling wahhabis.

    Syria has seen the destruction carried out by Isis of the Lion of Al-Lat , the temples of Bel and Baalshamin , the arch of Triumph and other sites in Palmyra. They are also responsible for the destruction of the monastry of st. Elian,the Armenian genocide memorial church , and several ancient sculptures in the city of Ar -Raqqah . etc.etc

    I don't see it as hypocritical that people were outraged at the recent destruction of cultural heritage sites by my brave jihadi brothers ,pretty much a normal gut reaction I would think. If Christian fundamentalist violent thugs or indeed anyone was commiting such damage and hateful destruction (and it was reported) to such ancient , wonderful buildings ,architecture ,statues, artifacts and objects of beauty, and cultural importance to the local populations and indeed our worlds history ,people would be just as horrified and disgusted and it would attract equal outrage and villification.

    I think that it's a good thing that some people cared enough and had the talents to build a replica of the gateway to the temple of Baal in New York , I hope that one day it could be rebuilt in Syria.

    So far as it been a waste of time ,money and resources, you could say that about absolutely anything that doesn't fit into your particular narrative . You could even say it about sitting on your computer spending time and effort putting words onto a hippy forum rather than doing something that some people would find more righteous and virtuous , the self righteous virtue signalling tosspots .
    Last edited by likahamadoolihan; 01-10--2016 at 02:00 PM.
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    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Likahamadoolihan
    So far as it been a waste of time ,money and resources, you could say that about absolutely anything that doesn't fit into your particular narrative . You could even say it about sitting on your computer spending time and effort putting words onto a hippy forum rather than doing something that some people would find more righteous and virtuous , the self righteous virtue signalling tosspots ".
    ........................................ ........................................ ........................................ .............Wow you spent a lot of time on your computer to a hippy forum rattling that lot off.
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    Something pd you off to inspire such a burst of activity?I do not understand the last paragraph ,can you explain...if you have time and your computer is not burnt out?Its funny but in all my very many years of direct action, out in the field in various things ,all across the uk, I have never come across you before.I have no patience with hypocrisy,cruelty,borders,faiths,or segregation of any kind..I geuss until I find out what I am, I will have to be content with being a self righteous signal pot whatever that is.
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    Attention seeking behaviour and transference,a very interesting case.
    Last edited by cricket; 01-10--2016 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #14
    Yes i did spend some time reading and then rattling that off , so what ?
    Good for you if you perceive of yourself that you've got no time for faiths,hypocrisy , borders ,segregation etc. I've got no time for faiths, cruelty, hypocrisy or segregation either .
    Last edited by likahamadoolihan; 01-10--2016 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #15
    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    I dont think I focused on Islamism?We all know about islam.Every religion and culture has done terrible things to other cultures.Are you blind to the atrocities of our western society or are you just peroccupied with a burning hatred for Islam?

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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    Yes i did spend some time reading and then rattling that off , so what ?
    Good for you if you percieve of yourself that you've got no time for faiths,hypocrisy , borders ,segregation etc. I've got no time for faiths, cruelty, hypocrisy or segregation either, thats why I make these post.

  16. #16
    I have no burning hatred of Islam but I don't particularly like it ,the same as all the other stupid ,harmful theologys ,saying that i don't hold any bad feeling towards people afflicted with these faiths.

    Yes every religion has done terrible things but most have gone through some sort of reformation and don't act like they did hundreds of years ago. Islam generally hasn't ,it's reformers in the past have mostly been killed and reformers and ex mislims now are in the main reviled and hated . I don't think that you know very much about Islam and I don't see why some people don't want to talk about and seem to excuse things like segregation ,cruelty and misogyny if such things are been carried out by some adherents of Islam and indeed are excused and encouraged in passages in the main religous text . Of course I'm aware of disgraceful shit that western societys have done .

    This week the writer Nashed Hattar was shot dead outside a court in Jordan , he was attending court for sharing a cartoon deemed offensive to Islam. I can't think of anything similar happening recently due to any other religion.
    Last edited by likahamadoolihan; 01-10--2016 at 03:54 PM.
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    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    Do you really think I and others do not know?Are you then the self appointed anti islamist preacher?That you seem to have the idea that only you on this site knows these things is wildly egotistical dont you think?Burning hatred and generating racial hatred on an "alternative "debating site,with a profile you probably think is humourous but is gross, does not show any degree of maturity.Are you some youngster being "a grown up with valid opinions"on line?

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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    I have no burning hatred of Islam but I don't particularly like it ,the same as all the other stupid ,harmful theologys ,saying that i don't hold any bad feeling towards people afflicted with these faiths.

    Yes every religion has done terrible things but most have gone through some sort of reformation and don't act like they did hundreds of years ago. Islam generally hasn't ,it's reformers in the past have mostly been killed and reformers and ex mislims now are in the main reviled and hated . I don't think that you know very much about Islam and I don't see why some people don't want to talk about and seem to excuse things like segregation ,cruelty and misogyny if such things are been carried out by some adherents of Islam and indeed are excused and encouraged in passages in the main religous text . Of course I'm aware of disgraceful shit that western societys have done .

    The writer Nashed Hattar was shot dead outside a court in Jordan , he was attending court for sharing a cartoon deemed offensive to Islam. I can't think of anything similar happening recently due to any other religion.

  18. #18
    Well i don't see you or many others talking about such issues in much detail on this site and I certainly don't see myself as an anti Islamic preacher just someone who is making a few points on threads i find of interest . I'm glad to see that there are a few other people that do the same.

    Burning hatred, maybe in your head- I really don't think so myself.
    Generating racial hatred -what a disgraceful crock of shit, trying to shut up debate by accusing someone of been racist. Talking about islam = racism, so what race is Islam then ?
    Did Ayaan Hirsi Ali a black somali woman change race when she stopped believing in Islam and is she racist for talking about difficult issues within Islam?
    Does a ginger haired or any other white skinned convert change race when he converts to islam

    Islam is not a race it is a religion , a theology, a set of ideas that don't have rights,or feelings that quite rightly should be open to examination and criticism.



    I really couldn't care less what you think of my profile .

    Here's a short clip of that racist Maajid Nawaz talking about such things, I might have already posted this elsewhere but what he says seems relevant here.


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    Last edited by likahamadoolihan; 01-10--2016 at 04:52 PM.
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    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    You have just confirmed my opinion entirely.
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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    Well i don't see you or many others talking about such issues in much detail on this site and I certainly don't see myself as an anti Islamic preacher just someone who is making a few points on threads i find of interest and I'm glad to see that theire are a few other people that do the same.
    Burning hatred maybe in your head- I really don't think so. Generating racial hatred -what a disgraceful crock of shit, trying to shut up debate by accusing someone of been racist. Talking about islam = racism, so what race is Islam then ?
    Did this woman change race when she stopped believing in Islam and is she racist for talking about difficult issues within Islam ?



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    Did ths man change race when he converted to islam



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    Islam is not a race it is a religion , a theology, a set of ideas that don't have rights,or feelings that quite rightly should be open to examination and criticism.



    I really couldn't care less what you think of my profile .

  20. #20
    shame the pictures didn't work in my initial post above, they were a picture of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and a picture of a ginger haired white skinned English convert to Islam.

  21. #21
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    Islam is not a race it is a religion , a theology, a set of ideas that don't have rights,or feelings that quite rightly should be open to examination and criticism.
    You could say the same about Judaism - as far as I know it was only declared a race for the purposes of clarity after WW2 - before that it was a religion just like any other.

    Thing is though, it's more than a religion, it's an ethnicity - it's a collection of beliefs that are incredibly tied up with culture and heritage and not something people can just shake off when they feel like it. Yes of course it's fair to criticise a belief system and the actions of groups and individuals, but that's not exactly the same as cherry picking select material for the purpose of writing off an entire ethnicity and all the followers.

    So in summary, religion is not above criticism, but you do come across like a bit of a one-trick pony in this department.

    To remind people of this in the
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    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    You could say the same about Judaism - as far as I know it was only declared a race for the purposes of clarity after WW2 - before that it was a religion just like any other.

    Thing is though, it's more than a religion, it's an ethnicity - it's a collection of beliefs that are incredibly tied up with culture and heritage and not something people can just shake off when they feel like it. Yes of course it's fair to criticise a belief system and the actions of groups and individuals, but that's not exactly the same as cherry picking select material for the purpose of writing off an entire ethnicity and all the followers.

    So in summary, religion is not above criticism, but you do come across like a bit of a one-trick pony in this department.

    To remind people of this in the
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    Although I shouldn't need to explain it, "ethnically abusive propaganda" means anything that sets out to denigrate or stereotype any race, religion or ethnicity in such a way that promotes negative stereotypes of those ethnicities.

    Basically, we're not a sounding board for intolerance.
    Fair point but does that mean we are not allowed to attack Scientologists? As that has been classified as a religion. It is acceptable to say that when the Jehovah's witnesses knock on my door I tell them to piss off?

  23. #23
    Heavenly Creature Roamer's Avatar
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    Is this a spiritual thread?

    Haggies dog died. Can we light a candle
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    all of us together.

    I thought it would be nice
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    sad but nice. You know what I mean.
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    Heavenly Creature Roamer's Avatar
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    I've lit mine. A big lilac one. RIP xxxx
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