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Thread: Electronically generated music

  1. #25
    yes there has always been electronic music at the festivals, but obviously never as intense as it is now. There was always a human element with electric guitars and singing etc, but now it's just dancing to a machine.

    This would be fine up to a point if
    they weren't also punting an 'earth spirit' philosophy.

    What no one seems to have noticed is that they have come out to a sacred pagan site to listen to the most artificial music ever made.

    I say, we may have been distracted in this direction 20 years ago, but we really should step back and see what we're actually doing.

  2. #26
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    yes there has always been electronic music at the festivals, but obviously never as intense as it is now. There was always a human element with electric guitars and singing etc, but now it's just dancing to a machine.

    This would be fine up to a point if
    they weren't also punting an 'earth spirit' philosophy.

    What no one seems to have noticed is that they have come out to a sacred pagan site to listen to the most artificial music ever made.

    I say, we may have been distracted in this direction 20 years ago, but we really should step back and see what we're actually doing.
    Your chasing a dream Diddekoi. Since time began noise generators have been made to convey a message. Now because you can't interpret that message in a meaningful way, your putting it down. It's like saying Guinness was made only to be appreciated in Ireland.
    I can understand your desires. If You grab a handful of Earth, it falls through your fingers to the ground, just like it did for your ansesters.
    Do You want the full staged set up. The robes, furs, the presession, the rituals Even the sounds and smells of what you (imagine) to be authentic? I'm not sure if you are trapped in a nostalgic bubble of yesteryear 1960 to 1980 or the journey nomadic tribes have carved out overtime?
    Nothing man-made can replicate nature ~ only become part of it through participation and mimicry.
    You will undoubtedly find people can connect with the message at these sacred places. To them (old and young) electronic music (even) from a machine can stimulate a thousand thoughts, say a thousand coloured words.
    Yes it can be frigging annoying, if your ears, mind and body is just not tuning in to it. Same repetitive rhythm, similar beats.
    (Sounds familiar to those made shaking shells. Banging hollow logs, blowing down wooden tubes, vocal noises) mimicry and imaginations.
    The Army have used this tactic to great effect.

    Your going to have to wait another 20 years for English Heritage to get their act together and cater for all comers. Like a Silent Disco, you will all be able to plug your own personal set of earphones into the Standing Stones and dance to your own tune. We can't halt progress nor should we, that's not to say we like what we see and hear at times.

    The Pyramid Stage at Stonehenge festival didn't run all day and night, (1) they would be skint for generator fuel. If they could get the generator to run! (2) there wasn't enough tuned in bands organised and it wasn't commercial like festivals to day.
    There may have been one or two on site with good car stereos, but car batteries died quickly. Beer sellers would have a small PA and a small generator. So no sounds were the norm, other than a few instruments around fires or wondering.
    That's not the place I want to be back at. If I go back I want to really go back.
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  3. #27
    Ok, I think we get the idea that you think hippies SHOULD listen to computer generated music, for some reason.

    Let's hear someone else lead the charge against this individual contributor..

  4. #28
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Bless you. I think I should leave you to your crusade.
    Im one of them dudes responsible for organising annual FREE 2 day festivals with10k Riggs, a couple of stages and dance tents. So I'm going to be a bit impartial.
    Coming to a Wood near You.

    I thought the Stonehenge summer solstice festival was too commercial in 1982 or 83 when a theatre or cinima affair was erected. I didn't go in to view. Needless to say I didn't have money to waste on anything so mainstream back then.
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  5. #29
    Heavenly Creature realnutter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    What no one seems to have noticed is that they have come out to a sacred pagan site
    Which is, itself, artificial....

  6. #30
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    I am sure that too many sound systems have not killed my memory and that I remember many festivals that were naturally powered and very limited with regards to repetitive beas or electro!!
    Last time I went to the green gathering when it was up in wiltshire there was only accoustic and traditional music which some was amplified via a four man rinkydink pedal powered system.

    The traveller vibe was set up down a drove about a mile from the site and was hardly a problem for anyone at the festi site. And in the spirit of open mindedness,the electro crew tolerated us hippies too
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    Thinking back now,I remember many festivals that kept the beats turned off both on site and near by due to them wanting to get a licence the foloowing year.

    I think Diddikoi that it may well be worth you looking at the flyers for the next event instead of following a matt black black lorry with a chimney sticking out and a boxer running alongside
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    O my god,I just made a generalisation
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    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  7. #31

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    Originally Posted by itinerant child
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    it may well be worth you looking at the flyers for the next event


    And if I see a flyer called 'Earth Spirit festival' or somesuch, with pictures of
    fairies, toadstools, and ancient mystical symbols that advertises a full-on banging sound system with lightshow, I will ask the same question, regardless of whether I attend or not.

  8. #32
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    Surely the lesson to learn is not to attend if it does not please you whats going on!!

    I am sure some people like marmite but I am not going to go to the marmite appreciation party as I know that I do not like it !

    If you spent as much time giving thought to what you like as you do to what you do not like,then you would not have issue's with what other people do as you would give it a wide berth and accept their choices.

    I have already mentioned that there are many events that do not have banging sound systems where you can go and mingle with like minded folk.

    People can fight all they like at football matches as I will not be there
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    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  9. #33

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    Originally Posted by itinerant child
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    If you spent as much time giving thought to what you like as you do to what you do not like,
    Where did you get that from?
    To my knowledge, this subject has been the only grievance I have aired on this site. I began by informing everyone that I am aware this view goes 'against the grain' and thus may appear contentious to the less open-minded, in the hope that some might listen and try to understand the point this individual is trying to make.

    Regarding what I do like, my entirely optimistic thread offering to meet at the stones for solstice was also met with a wall of negativity.

  10. #34
    Afloat ... or adrift? marshlander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    ... Why is this movement of supposedly nature-loving hippies now entirely dependant on computer-generated music and campaigning for the God-given right to plant a 20k sound system in the middle of the peaceful English countryside ?

    Discuss.
    This has been an interesting discussion, and I don't know if I have anything much to add, but you did say, "Discuss"
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    I don't go to many organised events as a punter, and even fewer "hippy" ones (whatever they are!), but I'm not entirely sure my experience matches yours. The last few festivals I have attended have been very small and very community-based events and have often catered for people who like electric and electronic music as well as those who like something more organically acoustic. Unless the music draws me in by virtue of offering me something of startling and ear-arresting originality, excellent musicianship or simply appeals on an emotional level I find myself hovering more around acoustic stages these days, if there is a choice. I am sad when it feels like I have heard much of what is played on rock stages already and even sadder when I hear the same happening on acoustic stages. I believe in the creativity of people and I have to hope that we shall continue to create new and interesting sounds for a very long time to come. If I didn't, I could probably not earn my living in the way that I do.

    Regarding your comments concerning "computer-generated music" I believe that, while much of this music may be produced using computer technology, I don't consider it "computer-generated" because it is still people, working as composers, who are generating the music. There is music that is being generated by computers, but I don't know how many of us have actually encountered the real thing. I use computers in some of my music-making, but it is still me making the music.


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    is an interesting article looking at one way computers can be taught to use algorithms in the same way that Bach used algorithms to create his very mathematical compositions.

    The other part of your question is much more subjective. You question why someone would set up a twenty kilowatt sound system in the middle of otherwise peaceful countryside. I suppose the simple answer is that some people like their music loud and finding a remote spot means they might be able to play it loud for longer before being shut down. Personally I wouldn't welcome it if it happened in my remote spot, but then i'm not a fan of being forced to listen to church bells either, even though I am intrigued by the algorithms that produce change-ringing and can listen, and be absorbed into the sound, for hours when I choose to do so.

    Setting up an unlicensed sound system strikes me as a display of an attitude similar to that which produces people who consider they have the "god-given right" to start up their drumming circle next to others who are trying to have a sociable conversation or people in an audience who think it acceptable to chat loudly through a musician's acoustic set. I don't know how we balance our desires against those of everyone else, but I think that most ambitions to listen or not can be met if we create our music in appropriate spaces where people know what the expectations are for that setting. If we know those expectations we then have a choice to stay and participate or give up the space to the others. That, I think, should be one of the primary reasons for a licensing system for live music events. I realise there are many things wrong with my argument, not to mention grey areas including busking, for example, but in the end it often comes down to courtesy.
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  11. #35
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    Where did you get that from?
    To my knowledge, this subject has been the only grievance I have aired on this site. I began by informing everyone that I am aware this view goes 'against the grain' and thus may appear contentious to the less open-minded, in the hope that some might listen and try to understand the point this individual is trying to make.

    Regarding what I do like, my entirely optimistic thread offering to meet at the stones for solstice was also met with a wall of negativity.
    I am not referring to all your posts and appologise to you if I have made you believe so.I personally have not read the post about the meeting at the stones yet.

    What I say in this thread is relevant only to this thread and nothing else.

    I hold true to what I have written here though in that you appear to be spending time being somewhere or going places where you are not happy and are having a bit of a moan about your dislike of electronic beats. My question being " why not go elsewhere " ?

    This is in no way a personal attack on you,so please do not take it as so. I would have to know you to dislike you
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    xx
    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  12. #36
    Me gone,bye bye.. NomadicRT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    Where did you get that from?
    To my knowledge, this subject has been the only grievance I have aired on this site. I began by informing everyone that I am aware this view goes 'against the grain' and thus may appear contentious to the less open-minded, in the hope that some might listen and try to understand the point this individual is trying to make.

    Regarding what I do like, my entirely optimistic thread offering to meet at the stones for solstice was also met with a wall of negativity.
    By that "wall of negativity" I suppose you mean a different view to your own ?

    I understand the point youre trying to make and i kind of agree but my experience of hippy life when i was young was deliberately less mainstream less big festi...ive never much cared for the headbanging megawattage of any festi/gig..its just not.my scene ...my early years were very much into small live.acoustic folk irish indian and hanging around horsefairs and cultursl fringes and im still very.much into that style of music/life but the mainstream hippy NAT scene moved on rapidly then along came Rave(probably leaving me behind as the wsrehouse rave scene left me cold) Not that i dislike the mainstream /glasto diet of music that now dominates the hippy/festi scene and I quite like electronic trance dance etc but ive enjoyed all of that in entirely different non hippy circles.

    Ive still no interest in loud megawatts of live headbanging music and i kind of resent it at every outdoor event I may go and it being inseparable from most hippy festi events it somewhat limits my enjoyment of them so i chose to avoid most of the big ones...and i dont particularly want to hear it at Stonehenge or any other venue at Solstice any more than i want to hear Christmas Muzak everywhere i go in December .But, its just the way things are in the hippy /alternative scene. its all encompassing and you just have to cherry pick what you want from it and discsrd the rest...and unfortunately tolerate the things you dont want to sometimes if you specifically want to.be somewhere at a certain time...like Stonehenge at solstice.

    For me the hippy scene i knew and enjoyed isnt around anymore its just become a small wishywashy part of a very big mainstream melting pot with no specific cultural identity,no caring sharing tolerant happy hippy community I can recognise or feel part of, just as much of what i grew up with has melted into historic obscurity....but it wont change who i am and i see no point in hanging on to a past that will never return.The loss is lamentable.embrace whats left,soon that too will be gone.
    Last edited by NomadicRT; 10-12--2016 at 06:02 AM.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...

  13. #37
    FORM FROM THE VOID Danann's Avatar
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    Well to me "Hippy" means and is all about
    "The Heart..Mind...Body ..Spirit...And Beliefs...which means simply "Hippydom" hahaha...
    And Not By Just "What Music They Listen Too" ...As its Hippy is More "Spiritual" and To Do With Beliefs...Such As
    "LOVE..PEACE..HAPPINESS ....As we are very peaceful loving caring people who care and give and show love to all peacefully and freely....and happily...

    Yes We LOVE music ...in fact all music ...as we love to dance freely and wildly ....and if that be by electric or by natural ...as Music is Music and can be beautiful in any shape or form....because a True Free Hippy Spirit will Dance Along To All Music They Love And Enjoy ...
    Because as i said .."A Hippy Is More About The Hippy Spirit And Beliefs" Than What Type Of Music They Listen Too ...Because thats Just "The Hippy Dancing Spirit And Love Of All Music" ...Because "The True Hippy Comes From Deep Within The Heart..Mind..Body And Spirit" And Made Up Of Pure Love Peace Happiness...Who Gives All Freely....Shares All Freely And Easily And Dances Wild Freely And Naturally And Who Gives And Throws Out Love And Protects All Things Freely.And Peacefully ...And That Cannot Be Changed No Matter What Type Of Music They Choose To Listen And Dance Too And Enjoy...Because It Is "The Heart And Spirit And Meaning" Of "A True Hippy"..

    Well that be my thinking and beliefs and ways of what a Hippy Is And Means....
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    ))
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  14. #38
    Ok, it appears to be more of a discussion now, rather than an attack.

    Let me illustrate another way. I have a friend who is a musician, and who very much falls into the hippy category. He's very new age. Vegan. Pagan. Crystals. Won't drive a car. Won't have a mobile phone. When I get a phone call at his house, I have to take it outside because of the microwaves etc. He and his lady make a big deal of being electro-sensitive. They say electricity makes them feel sick.

    All of this is fine. I totally believe and support this view. I'd even go as far as to say I'm proud to know someone so psychically sensitive and in tune with nature that the presence of electricity disturbs their aura.

    But then I went into his studio. Hundreds of humming black boxes with flickering LEDs, wires everywhere. No analogue, all digital. Even I felt claustrophobic from the heat, the smell, and the static.

    I told them, there is more electricity in this room than I've got in my whole life.

    But there was no answer. It seems we don't mention their electro-sensitivity when in the studio.

    I Don't Want To Discuss My Friends
    But that is a microcosm of the hippy scene today. It's all nature fairies and reiki healing one minute, thousands of pounds of digital music technology the next.
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  15. #39
    Heavenly Creature Shroom's Avatar
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    maybe its because hippies are elemental beasts and we are replicating our love of thunder and lightning with repetitive beats and lasers ?

    can I still use my digital radio or is fm safer ?
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  16. #40
    Afloat ... or adrift? marshlander's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    ... But that is a microcosm of the hippy scene today. It's all nature fairies and reiki healing one minute, thousands of pounds of digital music technology the next.
    Life in the twenty-first century is full of contradictions. Was it ever any different? If I can cast my failing memory back to the sixties some of my friends wouldn't touch alcohol, because it was poison, but managed to reconcile their consumption of other drugs quite readily. Later on it was keeping their bodies clean through eating organically, but that didn't stop them smoking.

    On a larger scale we sell weapons to those we later declare our "enemies". Madness is inherited.

    At least your friends (whom we are not discussing
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    ) are being creative. Isn't that something to celebrate?
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  17. #41
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    It's strange how our views and taste can change overtime Diddikoi. I've told you a little of my music interests. For many years now. Music has played less and less importance in my life. I no longer hold or value any of my Albums, my CD collection (never gets a hearing) I've un-played instruments around my wagon, safe but taking up space. A dear old friend of mine just handed me a short, electric guitar he made for me. I've not yet plugged it in.
    For the last month or two I've had a bird call, bird song ID CD playing in the van. It's like I'm driving through a urban jungle. Sounds that I could readily hear around my wagon fade into the scenery, but I wouldn't want to be without them.
    Last edited by alices wonderland; 10-12--2016 at 01:21 PM.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  18. #42
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    Originally Posted by Diddekoi
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    Ok, it appears to be more of a discussion now, rather than an attack.

    Let me illustrate another way. I have a friend who is a musician, and who very much falls into the hippy category. He's very new age. Vegan. Pagan. Crystals. Won't drive a car. Won't have a mobile phone. When I get a phone call at his house, I have to take it outside because of the microwaves etc. He and his lady make a big deal of being electro-sensitive. They say electricity makes them feel sick.

    All of this is fine. I totally believe and support this view. I'd even go as far as to say I'm proud to know someone so psychically sensitive and in tune with nature that the presence of electricity disturbs their aura.

    But then I went into his studio. Hundreds of humming black boxes with flickering LEDs, wires everywhere. No analogue, all digital. Even I felt claustrophobic from the heat, the smell, and the static.

    I told them, there is more electricity in this room than I've got in my whole life.

    But there was no answer. It seems we don't mention their electro-sensitivity when in the studio.

    I Don't Want To Discuss My Friends
    But that is a microcosm of the hippy scene today. It's all nature fairies and reiki healing one minute, thousands of pounds of digital music technology the next.
    well, isnt that being hypocritical if ever I heard it. its like the vegan police tutting about someone elses food stuff but then the tins and plastic bags the lentils and soy come in that they buy are not exactly environmentally friendly, live and let live but dont be a hypocritter.

  19. #43
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    After skimming this thread I'm not entirely sure whether the OP is writing about "electronically generated" music as literally music written ( or "improved") by computer algorithm or as music played through electronics.

    Personally I'm no fan of "autotuned" vocals, or electronic drums. To my ear, the slight imperfections make human performances better.

    Amplification, on the other hand, is technologies greatest contribution to music ( in my humble and now somewhat deaf opinion ).
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