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Thread: Should we be allow euthanasia

  1. #49
    Heavenly Creature parrotandcrow's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, I don't know that I am in favour of euthanasia in spite of caring for three people very close to me, who ultimately died without help, but who had begged for it.

    There is just an awful lot of worry about people being persuaded to sign themselves out, because they want to spare carers/relatives the pain of having to look after them; or because they have pressure put on them to do it for a multitude of reasons.

    It's an awful, ethical dilemma, though I would utterly, utterly support anyone who felt that it was the best thing for themself.
    If men bore wings and had black feathers, few would be intelligent enough to be crows.
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  2. #50
    I'm for it, in principle, but its such a minefield. Things are so rarely just black or white.
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  3. #51
    Heavenly Creature
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    Originally Posted by Miss_bee
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    What about people who suffer from depression? Not just a 'bout' of it, but years and years of life limiting depression.
    Would that be considered a reason to consider euthanasia, if that's what they wanted?
    Why not, as it is often a reason for suicide? Very practical.

  4. #52
    I dunno, its just hard to imagine where the line would be drawn, and who would draw it. Who would want that responsibility? And individual? A panel of doctors?

  5. #53
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Miss_bee
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    I dunno, its just hard to imagine where the line would be drawn, and who would draw it. Who would want that responsibility? And individual? A panel of doctors?
    At one time my old doc knew me and how I worked but he retired and the new system, 10 min appointments, conveyorbelt surgery ect, I would not rely on a doctor to make the decision but it needs to be a panel independent of the family to keep things above board. Ideally we should be signing paperwork now whilst fit and fully compus mentus to cater for that time if shit happens so it'll be our decision.
    Not all who wander are lost

  6. #54
    Very true, Wulfie.
    When my old mum was in hospital I was surprised to find she had signed her agreement to a "do not resuscitate" form.
    Considering she was as deaf as a post (but wouldn't admit it) and not well enough to consider anything much....

  7. #55
    There was a nurse a few years ago, dont remember the name, who was accused of killing a child whilst administering drugs to provide symptomatic relief.

    She was ultimately found to be acting within the borders proscribed by her profession and by law but was subject to many months of undesirable media attention and hate.

  8. #56
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Miss_bee
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    Very true, Wulfie.
    When my old mum was in hospital I was surprised to find she had signed her agreement to a "do not resuscitate" form.
    Considering she was as deaf as a post (but wouldn't admit it) and not well enough to consider anything much....
    That's most strange, my O/H was unconscious when she went in with a bloodclot on the brain and had signed one of those forms as well. It wan't until she'd recovered and had gone into a nursing home that the Ass.Matron there pointed it out to me and binned it at my request. With hindsight, my mistake binning it but no family member had been consulted or even told about it so the NHS would have killed her by withdrawing care without anyone knowing which was wrong.

    Anybody with one of those forms on their hospital file, nursing home file, doctors file or any official inaccessible care file is sentenced to death with or without their knowledge or their next of kins knowledge. The system is somehow doing that already.
    Not all who wander are lost
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  9. #57
    Peace Practitioner! Cobra's Avatar
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    Thats the trouble though Wulfie.After having worked with elderly people in the past,there is a fine line,before the diagnosis of ,for example Dementia,to someone who is elderly,and just becoming forgetful.
    Can clinically depressed people be classed as "With sound mind"?Meaning that they are able to make that decision to choose Euthanasia,when there is still hope,that hopefully they will in time,recover from depression,even though they may have suffered with it for years?

  10. #58
    Even with a panel of people to decide, who is to say that they are above all the things that can happen when groups of people are given 'authority'?
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  11. #59
    Heavenly Creature parrotandcrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cobra
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    Thats the trouble though Wulfie.After having worked with elderly people in the past,there is a fine line,before the diagnosis of ,for example Dementia,to someone who is elderly,and just becoming forgetful
    Also, an old lady gets a urine infection, hallucinates and is out of things; bang! She is incorrectly labelled as having dementia and will never be taken seriously again. Plus further infections will not be treated as her symptoms are dementia, dontcha know.
    If men bore wings and had black feathers, few would be intelligent enough to be crows.
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  12. #60
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Depression is one thing that I can't see or wouldn't want to see it being used for, as you say, there's hope but for someone who is in pain, seriously disabled with no quality of life or even hope for an improvement then it should be an option. My O/H has advanced progressive MS, can't move but has a quality of life in so much as she is happy, compus mentus to a degree, has total care and still has enjoyment of visitors, tv and chocolate. Should that change and her meds start to fail to cover her pain then I'd want the plug pulled.
    Not all who wander are lost

  13. #61
    I think human nature such that we are very resilient and adaptable.
    As another thing is stripped from us, we learn to accept it- where once it would have been beyond what we would think we could or would want to cope with..

  14. #62
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    Originally Posted by parrotandcrow
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    Also, an old lady gets a urine infection, hallucinates and is out of things; bang! She is incorrectly labelled as having dementia and will never be taken seriously again. Plus further infections will not be treated as her symptoms are dementia, dontcha know.
    That's just inexcusably bad medicine.

  15. #63
    In Belgium and Holland people suffering with depression can opt for euthanasia. They must show that their not suicidal though .
    The thing is where do you draw the line with reasons that people can choose to end their lives with the right to die. Teenagers wih anorexia that are tired of life ?
    That article that I posted earlier in this thread discusses these issues and laws and how they work in different countries .
    Douglas Murray- The Low Countries Slide Down The Euthanasia Slippery Slope.


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  16. #64
    Heavenly Creature parrotandcrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
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    That's just inexcusably bad medicine.
    Yes but it's also very common in care homes, especially.
    If men bore wings and had black feathers, few would be intelligent enough to be crows.
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  17. #65
    Radiant Being emmadilemma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    In Belgium and Holland people suffering with depression can opt for euthanasia. They must show that their not suicidal though
    I don't understand that, as it's essentially suicide isn't it? Well if the person has agreed to it at some point, which I assume is always the case.

    Am just wondering what the difference is between euthanasia and assisted suicide like what happens at that Dignitas place. From watching that Terry Pratchett documentary, the person who wanted to die had to drink a liquid, so I assume it's classed as euthanasia when a doctor does the deed cause the person isn't capable?

    As a side note i was shocked watching that Dignitas programme, at how slow the actual dying process was. It was in no way instantaneous like when animals get an intravenous injection..

  18. #66
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    Originally Posted by parrotandcrow
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    Yes but it's also very common in care homes, especially.
    "care" homes - something of a misnomer. IME the "care" part has to come from outside, and by golly it keeps them on their toes when they can see that someone is taking notice.

  19. #67
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    When I become old and lose independence I am not being put in the hands of the British care system, a bottle of good whisky and an exit bag will do for me. I'll go out drunkenly happy with my dignity intact
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  20. #68
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    some of these people that go to Dignitas should be helped to end it at home, you wouldn't be allowed to keep a dog in that condition but its okay for humans to suffer??
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  21. #69
    I was just going to say there is a good thread about this very subject. Then I realised this is that thread.

  22. #70
    Plenty of people say they have had enough.....In the UK though a convincingly high caliber round to cause sudden and potentially painless suicide is virtually impossible to come by.

    Self death is neither immoral nor illegall.....The means are however coveted and denied by the elite slave drivers.

    It's a human right and there is no question about the legality nor morality.

    The confusion and pathetic discussion is about the means of self death.

    Edit.....I mean death by self when stating ' self death'
    Last edited by zendaze; 17-03--2017 at 02:56 AM.

  23. #71
    Wulfie.....

    What does that mean?

    Are depressed people somehow mentally insufficient and incapable of making rational decisions?

    Maybe they just need a kick up the arse.....Or a whip on the back maybe?

    Care to qualify?

  24. #72
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zendaze
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    Plenty of people say they have had enough.....In the UK though a convincingly high caliber round to cause sudden and potentially painless suicide is virtually impossible to come by.

    Self death is neither immoral nor illegall.....The means are however coveted and denied by the elite slave drivers.

    It's a human right and there is no question about the legality nor morality.

    The confusion and pathetic discussion is about the means of self death.

    Edit.....I mean death by self when stating ' self death'
    The problem with shooting yourself in the head is it doesn't always work have a look through Google people are shot themselves and have no face left and are still alive!

    No thank you if I'm going to do it again I will do it properly, I have attempted suicide on several occasions once by crushing a motorcycle at well over 100 miles an hour I didn't think I would survive that one but I did, couple of overdoses that didn't work and I hung myself that actually apparently did work but my father cut me down and got my heart going again... my heart can't have been stopped for very long but I ended up in a coma for a week so next time if there is ever a next time I will guarantee the end result....60 foot bridge and a 40 foot rope rope tied to bridge, rope round neck, heavy backpack on, 35 lb weight should do it, bottle of whisky, drink whiskey and then jump off... that's pretty much guaranteed that's how I will do it next time


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