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Thread: Is Islam A Religion Of Peace

  1. #25
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    I'm afraid that the core tenets of Islam and viewing Muhhamad as the most perfect human is wrong and has negative impacts on the humans that are born into and have to live by the laws of said faith.

    Last year an effort to get child marriage outlawed in Pakistan was rejected at the behest of the mullahs as been unislamic.
    Little girls are forceably married in muslim countrys because it was good enough for the prophet so it must be right
    Agree 100%


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  2. #26
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    @likahamadoolihan - yours is a fascinating post and having listen/watched the whole of the second suggested clip, I was prompted to ask myself the question - what has changed in the 6 years since that debate was aired that might convince me that Islam is now more of a religion of Peace?

    Regrettably, I can't think of one thing. I feel that there have been far more examples of violence since that debate than there were before and so the visible face of Islam is certainly not for Peace..

    Perhaps, if the current rate of destruction **is** a demonstration of Islam being a religion of Peace, we should be very thankful/grateful that the moderates are "in charge"?
    Last edited by Red Dragon; 24-02--2017 at 06:52 PM.
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  3. #27
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sootyfoot
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    Agree 100%
    Sooty,I have always picked up an anti islamic vibe from you, and here you say you agree One hundred percent,may I ask with what exactly and why?
    Its very easy to say things like that,but when it come down to putting it ionto your own wors you have to think about it a bit more,why are you a hundred percent in agreement?

    Don hurry to respond as have got to head off now,but to be continued tomorrow
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    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  4. #28
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    This post appears to be set up in a way that is designed to push a negative viewpoint upon the muslim world and get people with already tainted views to agree more with that.
    I have other things in my life that I prefer to put my time into,the issue that I hold strong,but I hope that there are a few more people on this site that will look at how the negative side of islam is being picked upon here which at the same time is making lots of peace loving muslims look bad and making people harbour more hate towards them,and in my mind that is the perfect irony as it is fighting hate with hate.

    If we all do an eye for an eye the whole world would be blind said mr ghandi !!

    What is to be gained by picking out just the negative points and not pointing out the positive?

    what are you trying to achieve with this post when the answer to the question you ask is already set in your mind?

    Even what we say here can make a negative impact upon innocent people,so give a bit of thought to the possible consequences of your words people and try and spread a bit more love than hate.

    Bonne soiree a tous ( good evening all) xx
    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  5. #29
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    p; I know that my ramblings can appear like a bit of a personal attack,but they are not,they just try to explore a better and more positive viewpoint from us all.

    Positive is good

    negative is bad

    A demain ( until tomorrow) xx
    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  6. #30
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    Hi IC - I am just as anti football hooligans and the Far-Right and their violence. If a thread on that starts up, I would hope to respond accordingly.
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  7. #31
    perhaps a negative view of the muslim world is been brought about by the actions of a few in the muslim world and indeed elsewhere and not by a debate where both sides are able to argue for or against the motion. Did you watch the debates IC or check out Raheels video about attitudes and demographics ?
    Last edited by likahamadoolihan; 24-02--2017 at 09:01 PM. Reason: wrong letter

  8. #32
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    Just look up the history of any religion to find out whether or not it was ever a religion of peace.
    <SNIP>
    Agreed BUT, to the best of my knowledge, Islam is the only religion attached to a book that espouses an absence of Peace for those who do not convert to Islam and follow the book. The Old Testament certainly has some very "odd" behavioural suggestions and I believe the New Testament is without those "odd" suggestions but neither book suggests disposing of those who will not believe/convert?

    Sure there have been wars and the like associated with religion but I don't think the founders of those religions have proposed removal of the unbeliever or genocide or wars, it has been men who have later decided it would be a good idea.
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  9. #33
    Radiant Being Sootyfoot's Avatar
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    Is Islam A Religion Of Peace


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    Originally Posted by itinerant child
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    Sooty,I have always picked up an anti islamic vibe from you, and here you say you agree One hundred percent,may I ask with what exactly and why?
    Its very easy to say things like that,but when it come down to putting it ionto your own wors you have to think about it a bit more,why are you a hundred percent in agreement?

    Don hurry to respond as have got to head off now,but to be continued tomorrow
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    I'm not Anti Islamic at all I'm anti-anybody who is a fanatic of religion who is bound to do something over and above or in extreme of the accepted norm, usually killing, in the name of the said cause
    Those Mountains that you're carrying, you were only supposed to climb.
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  10. #34
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    Originally Posted by Red Dragon
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    Agreed BUT, to the best of my knowledge, Islam is the only religion attached to a book that espouses an absence of Peace for those who do not convert to Islam and follow the book. The Old Testament certainly has some very "odd" behavioural suggestions and I believe the New Testament is without those "odd" suggestions but neither book suggests disposing of those who will not believe/convert?

    Sure there have been wars and the like associated with religion but I don't think the founders of those religions have proposed removal of the unbeliever or genocide or wars, it has been men who have later decided it would be a good idea.
    From what I recall, there are many references in the Old Testament about 'The Lord' going before the tribes of Israel and blasting their enemies, and inciting them to put to death the unbelievers. This - the Old Testament - is often of much the same mood as the books of Islam; picturing a people favoured of the High God, who will help them overcome their enemies, and give them a special place. Both are strongly based on a tribal, paranoid, male-dominant type of religion. Followers of both are known as 'Peoples of the Book', and share a common history if you go back far enough.

    What Jesus taught - if he was real, of course - was something quite different, something far more spiritually-advanced for its time. But whatever he said was no doubt twisted and changed and made to suit the ideas of men who came later, who sought only power and greed and religious dominance, and made wars in his name in order to achieve their vile ambitions.
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  11. #35
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    @oldkeith - we really must stop meeting like this.
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    Thanks for your last post, to my eye, it is a very good example of "what we believe, see, understand" - I'm guilty of the same thing, that's the trouble with not being almost 5,800 years old - the date of the end of creation (another man-made calculation).
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    Here I go again...
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    Neither the Old nor the New Testament were entirely dictated by any form of supreme being to either the Jews or the Christians. OK, parts of the Old were claimed to have been given directly to Moses, like the 10 commandments, but the Muslims claim that the Quran was dictated in its entirety by the angel Gabriel to Mohammed (they say it took 23 years to do it). In the case of the New, Jesus, whether he existed or not, did not start a new religion. The religion was started by his "disciples" and it appears the writings commenced some 40 years after Jesus' (supposed) death.

    The real trouble with all this is that too many people of the book think their version is the only correct version. People being hornery likely explains why there are some 31,000 recognised versions of Christianity, 40 to 150 versions of Islam and 3 to 12 versions of Judaism; all numbers subject to revision over time and according to which "reference" one takes the figures from.

    I suppose it might be said that all religion is in the eye of the believer and biased according to the axe they want to grind. The one thing that the people of the book appear to share is the wish to control those that follow their particular tenets. In this, women seem to suffer most.
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  12. #36
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    What you say is very true, but we have to consider that anyone can start a religion by claiming that it was dictated by a god, or the agent of a god. Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni form a relatively modern example, and I am sure there are probably even more recent ones. I guess one has to have a helluva lot of neck to carry out this sort of thing until they get established as a going concern, with plenty money behind them; but con-men have always had plenty of neck.

    As you state, Jesus, if he existed (because his legend, including his 'resurrection' is a more recent incarnation of a very similar Babylonian one), was just a wandering preacher, one of many at the time, and certainly would not have thought he was starting a new religion. That as you rightly say, came afterwards, when some religious groups began to grow impatient with the idea of the Jewish messiah, who had apparently not yet arrived, and started to look around for one. It was then easier to say that he had been and gone already, and start a new off-shoot of the old Jewish religion, which evolved into Christianity, building up for itself a glorious and mostly non-existent past as it did so.

    The Old Testament itself is a mish-mash of myths and legends from earlier civilisations, has several forms of god and gods (mostly male) parading through it, and has its time-sequence completely at variance with scientific archeology. Some of the wondrous kings and cities and even lands which appear within it never existed, or if they did, existed as tribal chieftains, small primitive villages, and little provinces. In short, much of the Old Testament is an invented myth of a glorious Jewish history. See:
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    There is a hypothesis that male-dominated religions, with of course male gods and the subjugation of women, came into being in the middle east when populations began to outgrow their resources, when lands became wasted through over-grazing, and when men began to invade each others territories as a way of life. A fiercely competitive way of life rather than the more cooperative one which may have existed earlier.
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  13. #37
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    @oldkeith - we could continue to bat this topic backwards and forwards until we are old and gray and fit for nothing and, in the process, change nothing.
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    Maybe we should just congratulate each other on being so perceptive and analytical and call it a day???
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    If we don't, I suspect that we are going to stray into the time when time forgot and play bat and ball with the creation myths that are all so very similar; many of which pre-date the people of the book - by a very large period of time.

    Thank you for offering your points of view, I've enjoyed them all.
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  14. #38
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    I would agree, we don't really need to discuss these topics, as we both seem to have an open intelligence that isn't afraid to look into the grisly history of these religions, and form our own opinions.

    However, we are both aware that these things might be quite new and novel and interesting to some people following this thread, and if we have in any way encouraged them to look deeper than the gloss which appears on the surface of any religion, we have served good purpose
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  15. #39
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    I would agree, we don't really need to discuss these topics, as we both seem to have an open intelligence that isn't afraid to look into the grisly history of these religions, and form our own opinions.

    However, we are both aware that these things might be quite new and novel and interesting to some people following this thread, and if we have in any way encouraged them to look deeper than the gloss which appears on the surface of any religion, we have served good purpose
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    I wonder how many of the good people who frequent UKH are active members of any of the "book" religions as I would really welcome their input. Our viewpoint appears to be from outside of their religion and belief systems and so, not being a part of their "circle", we don't get to see what they see. After all, it is only by sharing views, however different, that we get to test our own beliefs and learn.
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  16. #40
    Heavenly Creature itinerant child's Avatar
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    Very much so. To spend time amongst others with different beliefs is one of the greatest educations you will receive. An open mind is essential too,otherwise you are just backing up your own beliefs in dogma!!!

    I have tried to bring that point up on numerous occassions,a healthy debate does not happen when all the people involved in are sitting on one side,that is moreso how religions are created.

    Many of the people reading these posts will not have travelled through muslim countries or spent their time in muslim communities,so their views on the subject get tainted with what they read on threads like this or what they see on the tv.

    The underlying current that I pick up on posts like this is very much that a lot of people have made up their minds that Islam is bad because of a few rotten apples in the barrel.
    I have even read the derogotory term "raghead" on here a couple of times recently when someone has been referring to someone from muslim lands and think that it is bang out of order to use such phrases.

    How on earth will we ever achieve peace when even the hippies are using such foul terminology?

    Here at ukhippy we have got a very interesting site going where there is a lot of love,compassion,intelligence and good humour spread across the pages and you can see on a regular basis the positive comments of people who want to join this community because they have been inspired by what they have read.
    That being the case,it goes to show that our words can and do make a difference in this world and that is why I am always trying to spread the word of positivity and fairplay on these pages and try to encourage people to think about their posts and shoot a little less from the hip.
    Together we have built up a great forum that can help change the world,lets try and build on that.

    Lets hope that one day people are not on forums asking is ukhippy a religion of peace !!!!
    anything is possible,that my friends is a mathematical certainty ;-)

  17. #41
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    "...Our viewpoint appears to be from outside of their religion and belief systems..."

    I take your point, RD, but some of us have seen one or more of these religions from the inside, already!
    That is one of the reasons some of us are here discussing them!
    We may have been subject to them, perhaps in youth, and we have over the passage of time more closely examined them, and we have found them wanting.
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  18. #42
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    "...Our viewpoint appears to be from outside of their religion and belief systems..."

    I take your point, RD, but some of us have seen one or more of these religions from the inside, already!
    That is one of the reasons some of us are here discussing them!
    We may have been subject to them, perhaps in youth, and we have over the passage of time more closely examined them, and we have found them wanting.
    Hi OK, but that's us, we've made our choices to be on the outside looking in but how can we understand the views of those who have either been brought up with the book or have found the book and decided it offers what they need if they cannot or choose not to join in?
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  19. #43
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    Originally Posted by Red Dragon
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    Hi OK, but that's us, we've made our choices to be on the outside looking in but how can we understand the views of those who have either been brought up with the book or have found the book and decided it offers what they need if they cannot or choose not to join in?
    To understand this we first have to consider, as an hypothesis, that everyone is at different stages of spiritual/psychological evolution, and that everyone is different in the amount of intelligence they apply to different aspects of their world. We also have to consider that some people compartmentalise concepts and ideas more than others do, either as a habit or a natural trait, or through some form of training.

    As an example, I know several quite religious people, nice people I might add, who although very intelligent in their own sphere, which might be medical or scientific work, are nonetheless quite happy in their choice of religion, and do not question it. Or its history. At all.
    For them, their religion fills a spiritual niche in their life, they go to services and meet people of like mind, and some of them do voluntary work together for the public good. Their take on religion is in the here and now, not so much in the hereafter. I would not dream of pointing out the - to me - obvious shortfalls of their religion to them, because they are happy doing what they do, believing what they do, at this point in their spiritual or psychic evolution.
    Only they themselves can decide at what point they wish to look outside of their cave. Even then, it would be unseemly to hasten this process, as the light outside the cave, the light of logic and science and analysis, can be far too bright at first.

    If one mentally keeps religion in a compartment, even if one is a scientist or a surgeon, one does not apply one's knowledge of science, logic, or analysis to anything in that particular compartment, it is just not done.

  20. #44
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    @oldkeith - it's impossible to have a dialogue when you are talking to yourself and, at the moment, we are only talking to ourselves!
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  21. #45
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    I am suggesting that the reason most religious people do not join in discussions like this, is because they are quite happy with what they have, at this stage in their mental and spiritual evolution.
    We generally don't get any fire-breathing evangelists here either, because they would get (metaphorically) cut to pieces
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    The original question raised by the OP was if Islam is a religion of Peace. The concensus seems to be that it is no more a religion of peace than Christianity, or indeed most others. When assessing anything, we have to look at its track record, not its promises.

  22. #46
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    I am suggesting that the reason most religious people do not join in discussions like this, is because they are quite happy with what they have, at this stage in their mental and spiritual evolution.
    We generally don't get any fire-breathing evangelists here either, because they would get (metaphorically) cut to pieces
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    The original question raised by the OP was if Islam is a religion of Peace. The concensus seems to be that it is no more a religion of peace than Christianity, or indeed most others. When assessing anything, we have to look at its track record, not its promises.
    Must be that I've spent too much time speaking with JWs.

    As to your last paragraph
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    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

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  23. #47
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    So called "Christians" committed genocide on the Native Americans, killing over 100 million. Hitler claimed to be Christian, and tried to become a Catholic priest. The Catholic church killed millions,beheading and burning them at the stake, for over a thousand years.

    What the radical Muslims do, they learned from the Catholic church during the Crusades.

  24. #48
    That doesn't make it right though, surely?

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