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Thread: URGENT! Stop Brighton making it illegal to live in a van

  1. #25
    Happens all the time...
    Last edited by Diddekoi; 15-02--2017 at 06:48 PM.

  2. #26
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    I've spent a bit of time finding out what I can about this, it's something that if adopted by other Councils could cause massive problems for vehicle dwellers.

    It appears that it was passed July last year
    Love Activists Brighton
    18 July 2016
    Heard that the proposed PSPO has been passed in Brighton at the latest Resource & Policy Committee Meeting on 14th July.
    But the petition is still relevant and will help garner support to reject its enforcement, also the PSPO has to be reviewed and renewed after three years.
    Stop Public Space Protection Orders from being enforced in Brighton and across the UK

    https://www.change.org/p/peter-castl...-across-the-uk
    Some very sound points against it were made just two weeks ago in an article by the Liberty-human rights group

    https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/news/blog/friends-families-and-travellers-how-councils-are-abusing-their-powers-target-vulnerable

    Thanks for publicising this Diddikoi, and don't be too shocked by some of the people here who really seem to belong to the Sutton and Cheam angry residents Assoc
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  3. #27
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Ok, so it's already been in power for 2 yrs
    Introduced in 2014, Public Space Protection Orders (PSPOs) let local councils criminalise any activity they deem to have a “detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality”.




    and Liberty are only just now talking about travellers losing out but what about facts and figures. If the OP had got it right and this was something that was in the offing, fair enough, jump up and down get the petition going and try to stop it BUT it's in. Is there any way of checking how it's been run, how the homeless have been affected has anyone even been dealt with under this power. More information IMHO is needed before deciding on what to do for the best.
    Unless I'm misreading it shouldn't there be a new petition on behalf of the travellers against what has already been done?

    Another thought considering how old this law is, is that it's a statute that would govern England, Wales and maybe N. Ireland and can be used by any council (FFS how did peeps miss it in the first place over 2 yrs ago) so before folk start panicking, it's already here. Anyone heard aught?

    It needs taffycat to do his digging except he's away for two weeks.
    Last edited by Wulfie; 16-02--2017 at 06:39 PM.
    Not all who wander are lost
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  4. #28
    wandering wanderingwill's Avatar
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    has anyone on here hadd any problems with this in brighton ?????

  5. #29
    Heavenly Creature
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    To be fair, it was actually parrotandcrow that posted it first, last year. Diddekoi put up a post with a less 'sensational' title, and I put up this one to attract more attention
    Last year, I tried to find out about it, and found out nothing. The nearest info I could get was a reference on a PDF of the notes of the meeting of Brighton and Hove Council. It was mentioned (in June) as being heard at a later date. After that nothing.
    What concerns me, as with all laws, this law is open to interpretation. One person's antisocial behaviour might go unnoticed by another person. Once a complaint is made, a council has a duty to investigate.
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  6. #30
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfie View Post
    Ok, so it's already been in power for 2 yrs and Liberty are only just now talking about travellers losing out
    No, PSPO's were brought in by central Govt 2 years ago, as a new tool where Councils could locally outlaw such things as rough sleeping. Brighton Council then used that framework of PSPO's to bring this particular PSPO against tents and travellers in July last year.

    I could have posted a couple of articles from back then, but chose a recent one to show that its still actively being opposed. Do you really think that Liberty are wrong to have published a recent article on it
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  7. #31
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Do you really think that Liberty are wrong to have published a recent article on it
    Certainly not, the whistle was for the age of the law not Liberty (now edited).

    I'm just surprised it's taken so long for them raise the concern (from the look of that article) and would like to see figures from them to see what effect it's having on the homeless. I'll admit that I hadn't heard of this law nor come across any reference to it when surfing for the legalities of roadside park ups.
    Not all who wander are lost

  8. #32
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    According to a few people from Brighton, although this PSPO was passed in July last year, it will only start being implemented in April this year.

    The Brighton PSPO will start being enforced from April. Homeless people will be moved on, have tents confiscated etc.
    The Council's website appears to be a bit out of date, nothing unusual there

    Following a public consultation in early 2016, the Policy, Resources & Growth Committee approved the PSPOs in July 2016. The orders came into effect from 1 January 2017 and last for three years, until 31 December 2019.
    Last edited by Chazz; 16-02--2017 at 06:56 PM.
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  9. #33
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    From reading the article I'd taken it to be in use by them already, July 2016.
    Not all who wander are lost

  10. #34
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Ah sorry Wulfie, I added to my post a quote from the Council that shows that although it was passed it wasn't due to commence until this year. I'm quite used to Council websites not being updated enough so am not surprised the enforcement won't begin until April
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  11. #35
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    So will the petition actually have an effect? Also, is it likely to spread?

  12. #36
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Q837: What is a Public Spaces Protection Order?


    Public Spaces Protection Orders (PSPO ) propose to deal with a particular nuisance in a particular area that is having a detrimental effect on the quality of life for those in the local community. It can prohibit certain things or require specific things to be done.

    An example of when a PSPO may be issued could be to help keep dogs under control within a public place such as a park. It may require that the dog is kept on a lead at all times and/or the dog is only allowed in certain areas. Alternatively, it may prohibit the consumption of alcohol in a specific place.
    When deciding whether an order should be issued, the local authority must consider two things:
    Firstly whether the behaviour is having a detrimental effect, or is likely to have this effect. Secondly, whether the effect/likely effect of the activities is of a persistent nature making the behaviour unreasonable and rendering the notice justified.
    It can be made to apply to all people, or limited only to certain people and can be restricted to specific times. A PSPO can last no longer than 3 years but can be renewed if necessary. Failure to comply with the order can result in a fine or a fixed penalty notice.

    For more information please see the link in the related websites section. To apply for a PSPO or to enquire further, you will need to contact your local policing team. You can do this via the non-emergency 101 number or alternatively by visiting your local force's website.
    Maybe a simplified version off https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q837.htm but having a quick squizz on council sites it seems to be an endless power in so much as it caters for boyracers through to rowdy behaviour on waterways. Just where does being homeless and living in a tent or doorway become anti-social behaviour FFS.
    Not all who wander are lost
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  13. #37
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    So will the petition actually have an effect? Also, is it likely to spread?
    I searched out three posts on FB about it from the last few days so clearly some are campaigning and the petition has grown from 700 to 1065 in the last two weeks.
    It worries me that it could spread to be used by other councils and could be used where there are current discreet sites.

  14. #38
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    Parrotandcrow first saw it on Facebook. I don't do facebook so couldn't follow that line of research. From reading the change.org listing, I seem to remember the petition will be delivered in March and needs 2000 signatures to be noticed.

  15. #39
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    Have a look at this to see some of what's been brought in http://manifestoclub.info/category/pspos/

    RECENTLY PASSED PSPOS:
    Tendring District Council brought through a PSPO banning: persistent begging; sitting in shop doorways on more than one occasion or loitering in that area; remaining in a public toilet without reasonable excuse, or sleeping there; refusing to stop drinking alcohol or hand over containers likely to contain alcohol when required to do so. See the council webpage.
    Hammersmith and Fulham Council banned busking and public speaking in the area outside Shepherd’s Bush tube station. The order prohibits: busking after 6pm; no amplification of music or speech; no busking for more than 1hr; no buskers within 50m of each other. See the text of the order.
    Wrexham Council banned: sleeping during hours of darkness; intoxicating substances; being intoxicated; smoking in children’s playgrounds. See the order here.
    Gravesham Council criminalised lying down/sleeping in any public place (except if you are homeless), including in a car or caravan. It also banned alcohol and introduced a restriction on riding bicycles. See a text of the order.
    Walsall Council banned any activity which has a detrimental effect on quality of life. It also banned causing annoyance by playing ball games or through using any vehicle (including bikes and skateboards). See a news report of the order; see the text of the order.
    Blaby Council has banned 10- to 17-year olds from standing in groups of four or more. See a news report of the order; see the text of the order. The council thoughtfully exempted the playground of the local school from the restriction, as well as bus stops or school trips.
    Worthing Council has banned begging, sitting or loitering for an unreasonable time; being in possession of a receptacle used to obtain monies for the purpose of begging; remaining overnight in any vehicle or temporary structure. See the text of the order.
    Cambridge Council has banned punt touting in the city centre. See the text of the order. Critics of the order have said that it will harm independent punt operators and that the city council stands to gain financially.
    Kettering Council‘s PSPO officially came into force on 25 July, banning under-18s going out after 11pm, begging, unsolicited charity collection, skateboarding, swearing and loitering. See the text of the order.
    Brighton and Hove Council criminalised unauthorised tents and caravans, the failure to remove an unauthorised vehicle, and the refusal to hand over your details to a council official. See a local news report.
    Last edited by Wulfie; 16-02--2017 at 08:42 PM.
    Not all who wander are lost
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  16. #40
    Heavenly Creature Roamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diddekoi View Post
    New law banning mobile living in Brighton will be rolled out across the country if not nipped in the bud.

    https://www.change.org/p/peter-castl...-across-the-uk
    I'm not one for petitions. I'm always in two minds. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets oiled but sometimes it's just best to go under the radar.

    You have to be a bit careful if you've got hobnailed boots on.

    I doubt very very much that it would be enforceable. One phone call & a few thousand people would put an end to it, that's before the days of faceache! Brighton council aren't completely stupid.
    This doesn't need a petition.
    Just line your ducks up & sock it to em whilst they are unaware.
    They start... you finish.

  17. #41
    Heavenly Creature Roamer's Avatar
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    And clean up after yourself not all hippys wanna live in your shit. Just coz some are clean & tidy that dont make em less of a hippy.
    You just behave yourself picking on Bernie for nothing.
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  18. #42
    Heavenly Creature cricket's Avatar
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    Absolutely.Horse drawn nomads use/used the wide verges near where i lived for many years,decades, on and off,then a quiet war started over persons using/leaving the common and leaving lots of rubbish and feaces behind ,especially behind the gorse bushes.The rubbish could of been taken for when a bin was handy,the faeces should of been put in a hole.The next comers were told to clear off and its been aggro ever since.They even had a couple of horses taken as they were reported constantly, chain tethered and the rspca are against that.I am not saying cap doffing ,just that a few spoil it for the rest in everything.Such a shame.
    Quote Originally Posted by hagrid View Post
    I've got to agree with Bernie, its not people sleeping-rough or otherwise- its they stuff they leave behind when they move on, I have seen it myself around Somerset and its a heath hazard.
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  19. #43
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Ah, found out a friend from free festival days went down there to play in one of the local benefit gigs to fund the fight against this PSPO, there's a lot of opposition from the funky side of Brighton.
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  20. #44
    FORM FROM THE VOID Danann's Avatar
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    I Be Sadly Surprised When I Saw This ...Because Brighton Is Sort Of Known For Its Acceptance Of Different And Free Spirits Etc ..And It Has A Rainbow Of Colourful People And Culture...
    So The Only Thing I Can Think Of Even Though It Be Soooo Wrong To Do...Say...Think This ...Is That Sadly A Few Have Used And Abused That Acceptance And Ruined It For Many Like They Always Seem To Do And Then Its The Weakest..And Vulnerable And Free Spirited That Suffer Sadly (

    Ive Signed And Past On As It Is Soooo Wrong To Do This No Matter What Has Made Them Want To Do This...And I Am Truly Sad To See And Hear About This(
    Form From The Void & Mists
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  21. #45
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    This needs more signatures. Currently standing at 1085, it has a way to go. Please sign!

  22. #46
    Heavenly Creature
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    Now currently 1112. Keep it going!

  23. #47
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    Now 1138. Still needs more though

  24. #48
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    Now standing at 1234. Let's keep it going. Bump!

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