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    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    mehh

    'Disability benefits should go to "really disabled people" not those "taking pills at home, who suffer from anxiety", a key Theresa May aide says.'
    Stupid Knobhead, there are some ignorant people around
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    Last edited by rhythm; 26-02--2017 at 08:27 PM.
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    Ah found it! Moderator FriedOnion's Avatar
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    Societies are heading in a dangerous direction, we need to stick together and do what we can to counter the slide. After looking at your link I clicked the one on the side detailing 10 attacks a day on migrants in Germany.

    The weak and defenceless are always the first to be targeted.
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    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    It pisses me off that mental health does not get taken seriously enough, just because an illness can not be seen it does not mean it is not there. Illnesses such as anxiety can actually be debilitating when at severe levels, we have such idiots running this country.
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    Heavenly Creature r3ubs's Avatar
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    Words cannot describe how I feel about this :-/

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    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Probably will not be long until they say things like this about other illnesses such as depression.

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    UK Hippy Reiki Doula Editor Sarah's Avatar
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    I'm fuckin fuming xxx
    If we are to heal the planet, we must begin by healing birthing.

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    Originally Posted by r3ubs
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    Words cannot describe how I feel about this
    Pity, because it needs discussing and opposing at every opportunity. But even signing petitions (take your pick from change.org) is good.

    It would be so easy for the Tories to implant a feeling in their followers that people with mental health issues were not pulling their weight as citizens and once they are stigmatised (OK, more stigmatised!) it would be much easier to get away with under-funding.

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    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Thing is, there are serverely disabled people trapped not only in their own home, but in their own bed or armchair. Unable to get themselves to the toilet, unable to access drinks or food. The help they do get is at a time when the services dictate. So if someone's time is say first visit late morning, midday or afternoon. That person is required to stay laying or sitting in their own faeces until the carer arrives to Help getting them out of bed. Usually this can be well after 11.00am and on Saturday and Sunday the government expect them to remain in nappies. This is often without food or drink unless family carers or friends can intervene. There's just not enough money in the pot to deliver the most needed care and it's getting worse.
    Going back to the mid 1980's word on the street for some unemployed was to get wankered on booze and drugs. Go lay on the pavement under a blanket outside the shops and get a ticket. A ticket was a payment from the state. Incapacity benefit, DLA or whatever it went by.
    It basically removed the need to sign on fortnightly. So sure enough, I knew several unemployed people out of just one village that did just this. Apart from two of them, as one died of a accidental morphine overdose and another drank himself out of functioning organs. Several managed to remain on this extra income till today. I've moved since then and in the village I'm in now a friend of a friend who is my age gets a rather large financial allowance for being a alcoholic. From what I'm told he has been receiving this payment for over 20 years. I see him most days walking to the local pub and several times a week walking to or back from the pub in the next village. He can even afford a taxi to take him drinking in the City. Now is this weekly money helping him get up in a morning or get fed, pay for carers to help him with his needs, pay for equipment or a vehicle/transport other than the taxi pub run? Is it really helping him longterm to fk his liver. Yet a mate not too far away gets one drink of coffee per day if I can be bothered to make it for them or if they pay 15 per hour to ask a cleaner to make them a coffee in her spare minutes from cleaning. I'm not saying that mental health is taken seriously enough. I've got plenty of experience of care in the community from a mental health care workers point of view, my ex-partner. There are many drawbacks with the health care system and the funding for it. For some people it's the difference between independence in their own home. Mobility to get out to socialise or Visit hospital or the doctors. These people aren't asking to be taken to the pub or prop up a household budget. I've known folk on disability payments who pester the doctor get repeat prescriptions weekly. Only to throw them in the bin or fiush then down the bog. Some even sell their script on. When I ask why they just dont ask for them in the first place, they say it supports their claim. The system is fked. I know that, they know that. If the government does nothing. My mate may not get a cup of coffe ever made for her again, unless I make it or pays 15 per hour to a cleaner to make one. Ive seen what services the district nurse can provide. They can't lift a person into a wheelchair without two staff present. They can't make a hot drink incase someone gets scolded.
    There are far too many claiming they can't do this or that for fictitious health reasons, but can happily go without medication and can participate in social, recreational activities of their choosing. I really wouldn't want to say how many old DLA claimants would have returned to work and normal life within a year or two, if the system hadn't rewarded them with near on a working wage (albeit a unskilled working wage) when housing benefit, rent, Council tax, dental care, prescription charges are put in the equation. It is no wonder the system has become abused by bogus claimants. The elderly haven't got much going for them, nor have the severely disabled. Mental health has for many years been struggling with the catchment of those who with a stable homelife and more self control over harmful miss-use of substances at onetime or another, could still contribute to society and the work place. We all agree we need more care and better services. We also know those who don't need it will one day have to be denied it.
    Its the same old argument, it's a tiny % that are taking from the pot. But the pot is smaller than we need and any saving must come from the pot to start with.
    Im not anti mental health or anti disabled. I'm a realist and have seen so much suffering/neglect and abuse of the system, just doing nothing isn't an option. If one bogus claimant is refused financial help. That probably a hot meal or a cup of tea or help to the bathroom for approximately ten very deserving, very desperate disabled people who deserve the dignatywe all enjoy.
    Shoot me if you want for typing all this, somedays you would be doing me a favour & my mate would just have to get used to a lot less coffees.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    AW I see where you're coming from as a carer up until a year ago. It wasn't so much finance but help that I needed but it was not available. There's a number of thieving lowlife shits faking illness for benefits and a number who are on it from self inflicted illness and this all takes from an ever dwindling pot which should be available for the genuine claimant, mental illness included. There should be a hard penalty for the bogus claimants as they are just stealing from the needy.
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    Originally Posted by Wulfie
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    There's a number of thieving lowlife shits faking illness for benefits...
    When I look at how people known to me struggle to get benefits despite debilitating and life-changing illnesses I sometimes wonder whether the fakery argument is some sort of urban myth or folk-memory. In today's NHS (Wales variety) it is damned hard even to get diagnostic lab tests. I can't imagine that the number you refer to is of very great significance, as it would require active cooperation by the "lowlife shit's" GP and that would involve a disproportionate level of risk to the GP.

    I can see the propaganda advantage of such stories to the Right, though.

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    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    I knew two personally and an old friend knew of a neighbour but wouldn't do anything so I reported them accordingly and they had their benefits removed, two went to court. It's easy to feign illness in an overloaded system and steal from those that need it. Right wing propaganda, just WTF are you on about.
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
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    While i agree to a point what youve said id take it more seriously if youd included the reasons there is insufficient cash in the pot...because its not down to claimants abusing the system.The governments own civil service assessments ststed that less than 1% of money paid out went to fraudulent claims.
    Of course theres abuse,we live in culture of abuse of state handouts and that goes right to the top and to a much greater level of abuse than benefit claiming.
    The 600+ parasites in Westminster who claim more in expenses in one year than the average DLA claimant gets in 20 years..in some cases a lifetime and the same parliamentary fraudsters have voted to deny DLA clsimants a 30 allowance.
    The money-go-round of corporate subsidies paid out to businesses that dont really need the money its just become expected by corporations to receive hsndouts or they start making noises about moving abroad.
    The 10's of thousands in the top tax brsckets who routinely fiddle their tax assessments and claim state allowances on top of thst for child minding and all sirts of other things theyre rich enough to pay for out of their own pockets.
    The Corporates who underpay their tax obligations to the exchequer and hide their profits in tax havens.
    The national scam of paying private managerial staff and private companies a fortune to manage state enterprises - who then secrete their state handouts to tax havens along with the profits.....I could go on and on but people are in as much a state of denial about that side of abuse of state finances as they are about the state of the NHS and welfare system and the reasons theres no money in the pot.

    The last 6 years or more the government has turned a natiinal scandal over bank abuses into an attack on the most vulnerable in society and with the help of the media accomplished game set and match in the propaganda war on the welfare state while carrying on just as they always have looking after their own and their corporate buddies.
    The disappointing part is listening to how much their messages has infiltrated into every part of society and now everyone believes its the sick and disabled who caused all this mess and the so called 'millions of robbing bastards' claiming benefit.
    Theres no money in the pot...but 205billion for Trident, 46.5billion for HS2, 7 Billion for revamping Westminster,11% payrise for MP's etc etc....keep swallowing the bullshit.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...
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    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wulfie
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    I knew two personally and an old friend knew of a neighbour but wouldn't do anything so I reported them accordingly and they had their benefits removed, two went to court. It's easy to feign illness in an overloaded system and steal from those that need it. Right wing propaganda, just WTF are you on about.
    Good for you they probsbly deserved it...did you report the 30 or 40 private traders in your area who routinely fidde their tax expenses? ,who offset most of their private fuel use and living expenses against the profits on the business and defraud the state ? No doubt they brag routinely to their mates about it too in the pub...I know ive heard enough people say what they do on their tax.Do you report all tjose traders who want paying in cash so they dont have to pay VAT or tax ? Did you report all those little people trying to make ends meet who want paying in cash so they can affird to eat and not pay tax instead....I diont think you woukd have but theyre all as big a set of crims as your neighours benefit claimant in the eyes of the law.
    Im not getting at you personally becsuse its the eay the majority look at the dituation,but if your going to look at this in a one sided way that its just benefit claimants who are damaging society and ignore the systematic abuse by the rest of society that amounts to substantially more defrauded from the state than by benefits claimed then clearly your reasoning is skewed.
    Ive known a couple of people who swung the lead in the past on benefits but i also know people right now who earn 5k a week and half of that will be cash in their back pocket but i wont ever dob them in because theres fuckers in Westminster on high salaries claiming 100k plus in expenses off the taxpayer and fiddling every penny they can.

    This country is filed with hypocrisy and blinkered amneasia when it suits.
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    Originally Posted by NomadicRT
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    The last 6 years or more the government has turned a natiinal scandal over bank abuses into an attack on the most vulnerable in society and with the help of the media accomplished game set and match in the propaganda war on the welfare state while carrying on just as they always have looking after their own and their corporate buddies.
    The disappointing part is listening to how much their messages has infiltrated into every part of society and now everyone believes its the sick and disabled who caused all this mess and the so called 'millions of robbing bastards' claiming benefit.
    OK, but in the real world it is the weakness of the Labour leadership which is allowing some of the bad stuff to happen. As the country is unlikely to fall into the hands of neomarxists (quite the opposite, the way things are going), there is no check on the advance of May, who is quietly absorbing the followers of UKIP, possibly** unaware that "you are what you eat".

    ** I have doubts.
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    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NomadicRT
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    While i agree to a point what youve said id take it more seriously if youd included the reasons there is insufficient cash in the pot...because its not down to claimants abusing the system.The governments own civil service assessments ststed that less than 1% of money paid out went to fraudulent claims.
    Of course theres abuse,we live in culture of abuse of state handouts and that goes right to the top and to a much greater level of abuse than benefit claiming.
    The 600+ parasites in Westminster who claim more in expenses in one year than the average DLA claimant gets in 20 years..in some cases a lifetime and the same parliamentary fraudsters have voted to deny DLA clsimants a 30 allowance.
    The money-go-round of corporate subsidies paid out to businesses that dont really need the money its just become expected by corporations to receive hsndouts or they start making noises about moving abroad.
    The 10's of thousands in the top tax brsckets who routinely fiddle their tax assessments and claim state allowances on top of thst for child minding and all sirts of other things theyre rich enough to pay for out of their own pockets.
    The Corporates who underpay their tax obligations to the exchequer and hide their profits in tax havens.
    The national scam of paying private managerial staff and private companies a fortune to manage state enterprises - who then secrete their state handouts to tax havens along with the profits.....I could go on and on but people are in as much a state of denial about that side of abuse of state finances as they are about the state of the NHS and welfare system and the reasons theres no money in the pot.

    The last 6 years or more the government has turned a natiinal scandal over bank abuses into an attack on the most vulnerable in society and with the help of the media accomplished game set and match in the propaganda war on the welfare state while carrying on just as they always have looking after their own and their corporate buddies.
    The disappointing part is listening to how much their messages has infiltrated into every part of society and now everyone believes its the sick and disabled who caused all this mess and the so called 'millions of robbing bastards' claiming benefit.
    Theres no money in the pot...but 205billion for Trident, 46.5billion for HS2, 7 Billion for revamping Westminster,11% payrise for MP's etc etc....keep swallowing the bullshit.
    it's easy to say it's bullshit Bryn. However, we are not saying what you NT have identified as bullshit either. It is as factual as what I have said. It's just happening under our noses and both sides of the problem needs to be addressed. i think the system did need a overhaul. Those classed as disabled or mentally ill who are still suffering, still in need are still receiving help. Ok it's stupid that ATOS came along with a broad brush and a hidden agenda. But some people have recovered from any injury or illness long ago. It's not until they are exposed or investigated that they except the game is up. We Know/are told it's only 1% of all I'll health claimants, it's only 1% of the unemployed etc. It's 99% of the population that works the system to their advantage, a consequence of greed and culture, an long established incentive to better oneself at all costs. When Bryn says it's all media hype. WTF I haven't read about my x 4 mates, the drunk down the road and the dozens of aquaitances I've lived alongside for over 25 years in any newspaper, radio or TV news. The problem seems it's easier to bullshit illness than it is injury. These bullshit people do exist and in large numbers. It was far easier by all accounts many years ago and to some extent, these are the very (recovered, rehabilitated) people the government would like to get off their books to start with. If your trying to fill a bucket with water, unless you have a endless flow of water, you have to block up the leaks at some point. This 1% are everyday people who live alongside us, they are a part of every community. I don't need the media to tell me it's taking place when I've heard it from the horses mouth. So please don't try to dismiss such facts to suit your own beliefs.
    I wouldn't give two fks if those suffering physically or mentally really did receive the daily care and support they need without having to rely on family or friends to do most of the care work voluntarily. If they were catered for it wouldn't matter who sponged off the rest of it, rich or poor. We will always have those that have more than most. But some have far too little to exist with any dignity.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

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    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
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    My own mother and grandparents were among those systematically denied any help from the state despite having worked all their lives and paid into the system.my grandfather had a stroke and bedridden,my gran blind and deaf,my mother diabetic and frail with a heart condition and the family had to pay for their care and home help while doing our own jobs and living our own lives...or trying to.
    Yes i know there are communities where the sponging is a mindset and goes on or went on...ive seen it myself and dealt with them when i worked in the NHS but they are and were slways a minority and most have been swept off the cushy benefits they lived on....and yes it made me furious thst people like that got help and my own family who needed it got nothing.
    I dont deny the system needs overhaul but it needs to be apllied to all not just those vulnersble and who can t fight back. The government have peddled their version of bullshit and its stuck....non of the banks and corporates or rich tax payers have suffered though.. so yes bullshit seems very appropriate a term to use.Benefits bullshit austerity bullshit immigration bullshit EU bullshit ...bullshit is all the government seems competent in and the opposition are a waste of oxygen and incapable of moderating or rechannelling the reforms so they apply to the able bodied and well to do just as much as to the vulnersble.
    Last edited by NomadicRT; 27-02--2017 at 12:07 AM.
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    it's easy to say it's bullshit Bryn.
    And it's easy to say that I said it's bullshit, but untrue!

    But some have far too little to exist with any dignity.
    It is a question of balance. Years ago the system favoured leadswinging. Now it doesn't. It's like residential letting, years ago it was too much the tenant's way, now it is too much the landlord's way. The scary thing to me is the mobilisation of popular opinion by right-wing interests in goverment to support the shabby treatment (to put it mildly) of ill people to save a few bob to spend on some of the stuff Nomadic mentioned. The pendulum as swung quite far enough in that direction, in my opinion, and decent people are being hurt.
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    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    NRT When you have someone you love being denied the help that the system should supply, the form filling, the jobsworths, the brickwalls for meds ect, then yes, maybe my vision is skewed against those who've deprived her of help and it's not just the corrupt government

    My own mother and grandparents were among those systematically denied any help from the state despite having worked all their lives and paid into the system
    and you know why. It becomes a fight for all in the same situation.
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    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
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    It would be so easy for the Tories to implant a feeling in their followers thatpeople with mental health issues were not pulling their weight as citizens andonce they are stigmatised (OK, more stigmatised!) it would be mucheasier to get away with under-funding.
    I would not put that past the Tories to do something like that, there are plenty of dim witted knuckle draggers around who believe anything they are told. It's those kind of comments made in the article that fuel stigma.


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    Originally Posted by NomadicRT
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    Good for you they probably deserved it...did youreport the 30 or 40 private traders in your area who routinely fiddle their taxexpenses? ,who offset most of their private fuel use and living expensesagainst the profits on the business and defraud the state ?.

    Lots of traders fiddling the system, taking their cash inhand and avoiding tax. Tax evasion does carry a heavy penalty, I wonder how much they are costing the economy, extra money which could be put into public services and that.

    In regards to people on benefits, I do not see an issue with them participating in recreational activities or having a cigarette, these are normal things, you can not expect folk on benefits to live like monks. Not to mention the fact that being on benefits long term can also affect your mental health, as you can become depressed, lose all confidence in yourself and end up on a downward spiral where you stop caring. I despise the benefit documentaries on t.v, they distort facts and give the wrong image of how things are. I was unemployed for 8 months once, it was horrible, the job center people were not the nicest and I spent the winter in the house with my coat on because there was no money for heating. I also could not afford to go out, the walls were dripping with water from dampness and in general it was a depressing time. I also do not know why there are so many people out there who are obsessed with whether a benefit claimant has a wide screen t.v or not, I guess societies stupidity has no boundaries

    But anyway, the comment made by that Tory idiot, just fuels stigma and can make people think that mental health does not matter when it does. I don’t think a lot of folk realise that physical health and mental health are not separate, they are intertwined,both affect each other. Mental health is very real thing and must be taken seriously.



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  20. #20
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    In regards to people on benefits, I do not see an issue with them participating in recreational activities or having a cigarette, these are normal things, you can not expect folk on benefits to live like monks. Not to mention the fact that being on benefits long term can also affect your mental health, as you can become depressed, lose all confidence in yourself and end up on a downward spiral where you stop caring. I despise the benefit documentaries on t.v, they distort facts and give the wrong image of how things are. I was unemployed for 8 months once, it was horrible, the job center people were not the nicest and I spent the winter in the house with my coat on because there was no money for heating. I also could not afford to go out, the walls were dripping with water from dampness and in general it was a depressing time. I also do not know why there are so many people out there who are obsessed with whether a benefit claimant has a wide screen t.v or not, I guess societies stupidity has no boundaries






    I agree i dont think because youre on benefits you should be denied the ability to live a reasonably normal life... having no money is the pits,i know that most days and i dont claim benefits.
    Its bad enough not having much of an income and being unable to afford decent food or warmth but when youre deprived of every last vestige of normality to tske the edge off the destitution it can crush the life from you.If youre a person who has mental health issues or physical disability that desperstion is amplified.
    Most people on benefits manage their money sensibly and its disingenuous of the government and media to keep peddling the stereotype that people on benefits live a life of luxury at the taxpayers expense.
    Unfortunstely it stemmed from.an element of truth in the 80's and 90's where a minority on benefits pleading poverty had no money to pay rent or fund looking for a job and with no food,no lightbulbs ,clothes for the kids running around the house with dogshit all over the floor but managed to find money for satellite tv and video recorder and a mega pack of tinnies and takeaways every day ... thats no stereotype,ive seen it for myself,ive even had to try to resuscitate people in that squalor and on some eststes it was par for the course..same situation different house..some lived very well with a car and caravan and fishing trips every weekend but no intention of ever getting a job.....but those people are very much fewer and dont get away with a fraction of what they did but the popular negative is still peddled conveniently by the politics of both parties to suit their agends and never addresses the causes.The recent tv programs on the subject have deliberately chosen prime examples of that sterotypical lifelong claimant to labour the point.No doubt duped by the lure of 15 mins of fame.Popular myths misconceptions and lies are esdily massaged when presented with the right biased 'evidence'...but then these programs cease to be entertainment or documentaries theyre just propaganda made with the co-operation of foolish participants.
    Little wonder now that theres much sympathy for anyone on benefits.
    The same media has been pretty mendacious in ignoring the very many cases where very sick terminal clsimants have been denied benefit or died when pronounced fit for work and seriously disabled people have lost their independence and ability to go out to work when they had thst before or the mentally ill.have been pushed to breaking point and suicide.

    The country still maintains a collective amnesia and selective memory and sees only what it chooses to and the really needy continue to suffer and in some instances die needlessly because of populist politics and ignorance.
    Last edited by NomadicRT; 27-02--2017 at 02:17 AM.
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