THIS WEBSITE NEEDS YOU - SERIOUSLY!
This website is perpetually in arrears & will not survive without regular donations! Of course, we appreciate not all of you are in the same financial position, but we do have over 18000 members & if just half of you donated we would never have to worry about money again. We value your support, so if you can afford it please stop us worrying by making a donation. There is a thread on running costs here.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 49 to 72 of 108

Thread: Why can't they just leave people in peace???

  1. #49
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Dark Chrystal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,971

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    I'm just checking.

    This is still a hippy forum isn't it?

    Paul

    Maybe it should be UKIPy
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...
    The following users think this post is groovy: aman, Brynhyffryd, emmadilemma

  2. #50
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    International jet-setter
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,942
    Do we Van-dwellers actually exist in the governments eyes? Are we a minority group to them? I doubt it, we aren't homeless as such, or of recognised groups like gypsies and travellers, so they won't do anything for us lot
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  3. #51
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,332

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Uncle jhad
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Do we Van-dwellers actually exist in the governments eyes? Are we a minority group to them? I doubt it, we aren't homeless as such, or of recognised groups like gypsies and travellers, so they won't do anything for us lot
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    I really do not want or ask the government to help me. I don't care if the government can't see me in fact I positively, actively try to distance myself from the government as much as possible.

    I just want to be left alone

    paul
    PⒶUL
    The following users think this post is groovy: likahamadoolihan, NomadicRT, Uncle jhad

  4. #52
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Alfheim
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,776
    Van dwellers will drop into the New Age Traveller slot whatever they do for them if anything.
    Not all who wander are lost

  5. #53
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    International jet-setter
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,942

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    I really do not want or ask the government to help me. I don't care if the government can't see me in fact I positively, actively try to distance myself from the government as much as possible.

    I just want to be left alone

    paul
    Oh I fully agree with you Paul, I have minimal contact myself (which is still too much), and ask for nothing
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  6. #54
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Dark Chrystal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,971

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Uncle jhad
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Do we Van-dwellers actually exist in the governments eyes? Are we a minority group to them? I doubt it, we aren't homeless as such, or of recognised groups like gypsies and travellers, so they won't do anything for us lot
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    The only time we're recognised is when we park up and 'devalue' their property or area.

    Like aman said i dont want recognition, i just want to be free to park up where i want thats not imposing on anyone elses privacy.
    I dont claim benefits nor want anything from the government and I pay my own way -something the Torys want everyone to do.
    The problem is we dont conform and wont stay on the hamster wheel so we'll always be a pariah to those who are happy to be shackled to it.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...
    The following users think this post is groovy: aman, Uncle jhad, Wulfie

  7. #55
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Uncle jhad
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Do we Van-dwellers actually exist in the governments eyes? Are we a minority group to them? I doubt it, we aren't homeless as such, or of recognised groups like gypsies and travellers, so they won't do anything for us lot
    i wouldn't be so sure. I have a feeling that a dollop of taxation is heading your way. It would be easy to make a case that you should pay council tax like everyone else. How long before some MP stands up and talks about the "problem" of homeless van dwellers? I suspect that your legal status is the same as travellers, there is no DNA test for travellers.

    Best defence would be to have some sort of device which conferred residency, for example you could set up a religious order at a real address which confers all sorts of exemptions.

  8. #56
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by NomadicRT
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    The problem is we dont conform and wont stay on the hamster wheel so we'll always be a pariah to those who are happy to be shackled to it.
    i think you underestimate the toleranace of most people though some will find fault with any deviation from the norm. What you should fear is a change in the law, or maybe more stringent operation of existing laws as in Brighton, because when you are on the "wrong" side of the law you lose a lot of sympathy to a point where you do get pariah status.

  9. #57
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    International jet-setter
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,942

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    i wouldn't be so sure. I have a feeling that a dollop of taxation is heading your way. It would be easy to make a case that you should pay council tax like everyone else. How long before some MP stands up and talks about the "problem" of homeless van dwellers? I suspect that your legal status is the same as travellers, there is no DNA test for travellers.

    Best defence would be to have some sort of device which conferred residency, for example you could set up a religious order at a real address which confers all sorts of exemptions.
    Well, speaking as a god, I am a bit fed up of setting up bloody religions and their orders, and what have they done for me?
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    The following users think this post is groovy: Brynhyffryd

  10. #58
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,332
    We (as a country) don't have the money to put people who view child pornography in jail or tackle organised crime but we do seem to have the resources to make a hard working couple who have decided to take responsibility for themselves homeless

    Making Britain Great again

    paul
    PⒶUL
    The following users think this post is groovy: likahamadoolihan, NomadicRT, Wulfie

  11. #59
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    We (as a country) don't have the money to put people who view child pornography in jail or tackle organised crime but we do seem to have the resources to make a hard working couple who have decided to take responsibility for themselves homeless
    Virtue is its own reward, not a pass out from equality under the law.

  12. #60

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Planners are not free agents whose mission in life is to spoil your day, they have the responsibility of implementing planning law and ensuring that procedures are followed, fees paid, lawbreakers evicted, or on occasion, prosecuted wich may result even in imprisonment. I know planners personally and I know people who have had difficulties with 'em, I'm one myself. I also know a man who was locked up because of a wicked breach of planning law, something which would in his case attract no sympathy whatever on this forum (or from me). And I have lived, and know people who live, and/or have lived, in shall we say informal accomodation, either tents, trailers, caravans or dwellings of their own construction.

    Let us assume that the people concerned in this case are in fact a "lovely couple". No problems there, most of the people in teh world are nice, and "lovely" is a great but not rare quality. Maybe some of the planners, court officials, journalists, neighbours, etc involved in the case are also "lovely", I hope that they are, and that whatever is done is done with compassion.

    "you will never beat the planners, they want everyone to conform". Now it's my turn to facepalm. Of course they do, it's in the name, "planners". Their job is to implement planning law which is the same for all of us. It's not about beating the planners, it's about not ignoring the law with such screamingly obvious consequences. OK, if you consider yourself to be part of an outlaw nation, great, no point in dialogue, I'll shut up.

    The other thing is that if we all did it, the country would be in the shit...literally. We are talking about the green fringes of a densely populated country, not the open savannah.


    I have personal experience with Planners, in fact they spent many thousands and thousands of pounds trying to get rid of me, they tell lies, they do not do things by the book/planning law, they try to trick you, but then what you do is you study the planning laws, and then you know more than they do, I won my battles because I learned the game and I played it, but in my opinion it is not worth fighting with them over a structure better to have the land and a van.

    In this country the planning laws favour the rich it is not a level playing field.

    One size does not fit all we do not all want to live the same way and some people just want a simple life.
    The following users think this post is groovy: aman, Chazz, NomadicRT, Offgrid hero, parrotandcrow, Wulfie

  13. #61
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Dark Chrystal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,971

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    i think you underestimate the toleranace of most people though some will find fault with any deviation from the norm. What you should fear is a change in the law, or maybe more stringent operation of existing laws as in Brighton, because when you are on the "wrong" side of the law you lose a lot of sympathy to a point where you do get pariah status.
    Ive seen plenty of rabid violent intolerance from ordinary folk thank you ..and for all kinds of nonsensical reasons...Britain is a swamp of intolerance and ive not seen much tolerance of peace loving people by the governments of the past either (Nostell priory and Beanfield just two examples)A change in the law in 84 made ravers and NATs a pariah to add to the anti gypsy traveller laws so spare me your lectures on sympathy and being on the right side of the law...I trust no one in the establishment and i take everyone else as i find but that doesnt mean i trust them either.Most have their own prejudices and agendas to protect and a few harmless van dwellers and hippys isnt on most peoples list of persons to be tolerated.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...

  14. #62

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    it says so on the tin, but since when did hippies get special privileges? From my reconning it's always been tits up and against what would be perfectly feasible out in the desert, loads a room to park up a cranky sound system strapped to the roof of a beatup bus. Hippies mostly dossed on a mates floor from what I remember. Ownership was something they shy away from. Perfect planet and leave it for the growy things man.
    Do you live on land ??

  15. #63
    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Alfheim
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    62
    Posts
    3,776
    when you are on the "wrong" side of the law you lose a lot of sympathy to a point where you do get pariah status.
    When decent honest people are placed on the wrong side of the law through seeking to survive either through a change of circumstance or a change of life style at no expense to the community, the sheep who accept being kept in a slot, then that law is morally wrong and needs to be changed.
    Not all who wander are lost
    The following users think this post is groovy: aman, Cobra, NomadicRT, Rick69

  16. #64
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by NomadicRT
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Ive seen plenty of rabid violent intolerance from ordinary folk thank you ..and for all kinds of nonsensical reasons...Britain is a swamp of intolerance and ive not seen much tolerance of peace loving people by the governments of the past either (Nostell priory and Beanfield just two examples)A change in the law in 84 made ravers and NATs a pariah to add to the anti gypsy traveller laws so spare me your lectures on sympathy and being on the right side of the law...I trust no one in the establishment and i take everyone else as i find but that doesnt mean i trust them either.Most have their own prejudices and agendas to protect and a few harmless van dwellers and hippys isnt on most peoples list of persons to be tolerated.
    You can probably get something on prescription for that m8, and it will be my pleasure to spare you.

  17. #65
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Dark Chrystal
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,971
    I m sure you can get something on.prescription for being the condescending arsehole you are too.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...
    The following users think this post is groovy: Brynhyffryd

  18. #66
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Wulfie
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    When decent honest people are placed on the wrong side of the law through seeking to survive either through a change of circumstance or a change of life style at no expense to the community, the sheep who accept being kept in a slot, then that law is morally wrong and needs to be changed.
    So change the law, agitate or something, but don't just break the law in an idiotic way which will clearly and predictably get you kicked out and then expect sympathy for being decent and honest but unlucky and victimised.

    I have no doubt that planning law could be changed for the better, or implemented in a fairer way, but when you throw the laws out, it will be one big free for all.

    And never mind how virtuous the people are, there are damn good people everywhere.
    The following users think this post is groovy: alices wonderland, Miss_bee

  19. #67
    Heavenly Creature dieseldog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    West Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,154
    Signed, Toby.
    The following users think this post is groovy: aman

  20. #68
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,332

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Brynhyffryd
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    So change the law, agitate or something, but don't just break the law in an idiotic way which will clearly and predictably get you kicked out and then expect sympathy for being decent and honest but unlucky and victimised.

    I have no doubt that planning law could be changed for the better, or implemented in a fairer way, but when you throw the laws out, it will be one big free for all.

    And never mind how virtuous the people are, there are damn good people everywhere.
    Kate and Alan Burrows are trying to change the law. They are campaigning to have the one planet development policy from Wales rolled out across the whole UK.

    I'm not sure they have broken any laws either. Building first is not against the law. If you build and live there for four years and no one complains then you may be able to stay without planning permission. You don't get prosecuted for the previous four years. Planning is more guidelines than laws I believe which is why it is so difficult to navigate the planning system.

    If it were made up of laws you could just employ a lawyer to navigate the system for you and ensure a 100% positive outcome. Guidelines are open to interpretation extortion and corruption, and so for some people the only way of having a chance of building and living on their own land is to do it and apply from planning retrospectively. Kate and Alan have a much greater chance of success doing it this way than applying for planning permission first. That is why they chose that course of action.

    And good on them. This is how the system is changed. Get the press involved -in this case the worldwide press- and show to the world what a fucked up corrupt system we live in.

    This is the tack Tony Wrench took with his roundhouse in Wales. This fight brought about the One Planet Development Policy which now makes it much easier to live in an appropriate manner.

    Paul
    PⒶUL
    The following users think this post is groovy: Brynhyffryd, Cobra, NomadicRT, Wulfie

  21. #69
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    dissident field dweller
    Gender
    Male
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,142

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by dollybassett
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Do you live on land ??
    I do, I own 5 acres. But I'm not allowed to live on it by law. I even asked if I could put my old double decker bus on stilts to make its footprint smaller. I'm not a big person, but could have really done with 20acres mixed arable and woodland to live rightly. Now I manage with enough land for my wagons, surplus vehicles, workshops, storage sheds barns, since its conforming to the law.. I like most spent all my life saving up to buy that land. Managed it sympathetically year after year, turned it from intensively over exploited agricultural land which was really only productive in wet years and that was with full EU subsidies going to the farmer. I reverted it back to organic. Allowed it to rest and evolve naturally for habitation of wildlife and myself. Lived off of the top of it. Like everyone else, told I can't live there. Applied for permissions, these refused and rightly so, it's still left alone for wildlife and myself under the 28day rule. I do live on land. Yes had to apply for planning permission, was granted, I have to pay Council tax. I've said since day one of joining this forum. I'm just as much a did as a hippy if I need to identify. I don't need to sugar coat reality to see through selfish bullshit about how different a classification, a ID makes a person and how that should grant them special status above any other, rich or poor, oppressed or suppressed. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. All for one and one for all & now Brexit. I've worked the best part of my life in Countryside management. I have a good understanding of its vulnerabilities, the pressure it's under, how little is actually left undisturbed, not intensively exploited and still in demand.
    Fast forward the UK if we could buy and build even the most modest dwelling (without) restrictions or planning control. 30 years time, our urban countryside would resemble the favela in Brazil, Villa Miseria in Argentina, Kibera or Delhi.
    Talk to any British pensioner about where you live now and they will tell you "I can remember when this was all gardens, that all fields". It doesn't take much of an imagination to know that what ever it is, where ever it is, however it is. It will have an impact on someone or something. Next time you stare out over open a Countryside, think Delhi, next time you look up across those mountainous Valleys, think favela. Next time your out in the Countryside, enjoy it for what it is, because sure as fk. Someone is waiting to build there, live there and there's a never ending queue.
    So yeh, I live on land. Doubt I will ever grow wings, cos I've been a wrong-en.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  22. #70
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Kate and Alan Burrows are trying to change the law. They are campaigning to have the one planet development policy from Wales rolled out across the whole UK.
    and, presumably, to save their own project, great synergy there.

    I'm not sure they have broken any laws either.
    The planning authority is just having a little joke then. My bad.

    If it were made up of laws you could just employ a lawyer to navigate the system for you and ensure a 100% positive outcome.
    Thanks Paul for the first real good chuckle of the day. If only the law worked that way!

    Guidelines are open to interpretation extortion and corruption
    There is wiggle room which can sometimes be exploited. This is not in my view an excuse for ignoring the entire framework of planning, which would result in disaster.

    ...and so for some people the only way of having a chance of building and living on their own land is to do it and apply from planning retrospectively. Kate and Alan have a much greater chance of success doing it this way than applying for planning permission first. That is why they chose that course of action.
    Possibly, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

    And good on them. This is how the system is changed. Get the press involved -in this case the worldwide press- and show to the world what a fucked up corrupt system we live in.
    100% behind changing the system, and if they are campaigners first and foremost, great, they know what is at stake and they place their bet on their own success. Chancers, yes, but in a noble cause. The world-wide press, accustomed to dealing with the trivia of so-called world-wide emergencies, massacres, famine, rising sea levels, etc, will no doubt be suitably impressed by the terrible yoke of oppression under which we Brits must toil.
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    MCS is a terrible affliction. Building your own eco-house is a grand thing to do. Being hardworking and lovely too is laudable. But they have nothing whatever to do with the guts of this matter, which is that the LA have refused retrospective PP and could hardly have acted in any other way in the circumstances. I don't see anything "fucked-up" in their action.

    Anything which gives more exposure to OPD is good. OPD is not the "second coming" IMO, but just a step along the way to educating people how to live.

    Sorry to be so resistant to the tribal gathering-call on this occasion, but I feel that issues are being blurred and the single OCD gene in my DNA is triggered by the blurring of issues.

    Can we put away the violins now? If not, maybe chuck in some cute penguins, but I'm out of the discussion.
    [/QUOTE]

  23. #71
    Heavenly Creature Editor aman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,332
    Kate has said that no matter what happens to their home their main objective now is to OPD.

    If they had broken any laws they would be going to prison or paying a hefty fine not just having their house taken down.

    You are right. There may be wriggle room as you call it but you have to be in the game to take advantage of that. If they had just applied for PP in the first place they would have just been refused for such a building. The only way to enter the game is to build anyway and fight later.

    Paul
    PⒶUL

  24. #72
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,043

    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by aman
    To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    If they had broken any laws they would be going to prison or paying a hefty fine not just having their house taken down.
    and so they will if they do not comply with the order, or so I believe, certainly used to work that way!


    You are right. There may be wriggle room as you call it but you have to be in the game to take advantage of that. If they had just applied for PP in the first place they would have just been refused for such a building. The only way to enter the game is to build anyway and fight later.
    Sure, their choice. I don't see them as victims.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •