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Thread: Animal agriculture UK 2016

  1. #1
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Animal agriculture UK 2016

    One of the things I often hear is how "The UK is different" or "That's old news and things have changed" etc. Well this footage from various UK slaughterhouses and farms taken throughout 2016 ... as far as I know, everyone who ever enters an establishment like this with a hidden camera, always comes out with footage of mistreatment and cruelty!

    If you decide not to watch this, then maybe ask yourself why it's good for your stomach if it isn't good for your eyes?


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  2. #2
    Heavenly Creature Lightbringer's Avatar
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    Do you believe all farmers are cruel to animals?



  3. #3
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lightbringer
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    Do you believe all farmers are cruel to animals?
    If we're talking about animal agriculture, then absolutely, and not just farmers - anyone who (outside of rescue) justifies and profits from imprisoning, artificially breeding, forcibly using or killing any innocent animal or taking their produce is involved in animal exploitation.

    They've done nothing to us - and if an animal doesn't need or want to die, then it's unnecessary exploitation. There is an abundance of food and other raw materials in this country that don't involve deliberate suffering - so why choose to do something exploitative when you could choose to do something else?

    Did you watch the footage?
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  4. #4
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    if one eats meat at some point the animal has to be killed, stands to reason, its how we go about it that's important, I believe British standards are better than a lot of other places.
    " Does not suffer fools gladly!"

  5. #5
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    if one eats meat at some point the animal has to be killed, stands to reason, its how we go about it that's important, I believe British standards are better than a lot of other places.
    Yes, true ... so, if an animal needs to be killed in order to eat meat, why not eat something else?

    The treatment of animals in other countries is irrelevant - just because something is worse elsewhere, doesn't mean it's acceptable here.

    Most people justify eating meat because they enjoy the taste - but is taste a good enough excuse for killing?

    Did you watch the footage?
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  6. #6
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    i like eating meat, i'm a carnivore.
    " Does not suffer fools gladly!"

  7. #7
    I'm priming myself to watch the footage. I dont want to, but I've got to, as a meat eater, I think.
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  8. #8
    Walking back to happiness ma bungo's Avatar
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    I watched the video it and is horrific , but intensive farming is never good, but it is a price that is paid for cheap food that people want so much .I will only eat meat I have raised my self as I know every thing about its production , and I appreciate this is not possible for most meat eaters. Seeking out good organic high welfare meat is not that hard though and it is better to pay a bit more and eat less of it .
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  9. #9
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    That is so right Ma, I don't eat any factory farmed meat, the stuff I get is all reared in fields in the open air, from a reputable local supplier.
    " Does not suffer fools gladly!"
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    Radiant Being emmadilemma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ma bungo
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    Seeking out good organic high welfare meat is not that hard though and it is better to pay a bit more and eat less of it .
    Less bad doesn't mean good though. Dairy calves are still taken off their mothers at birth. Free range hens still live in very cramped conditions and are killed at a young age when egg production drops and the slaughter process is no less terrifying whether an animal is organically reared or not.
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    Heavenly Creature Wulfie's Avatar
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    As Ma says, I pay a bit extra for free range and if possible locally sourced but I'm trying to go more veggie nowadays.

    and no, didn't watch the vid. Human suffering, no problem but animals ..............
    Not all who wander are lost
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    Radiant Being emmadilemma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Wulfie
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    and no, didn't watch the vid. Human suffering, no problem but animals ..............
    I can't watch it either well I could but it'd traumatise me for a long time.

    In my job I see the deep love and strong bond that humans are capable of having with other species. Unfortunately this doesn't extend to farm animals as we're brought up to believe that their purpose is to feed us and for that reason they're seen as being beneath other species.

    For me the change happened when I went into an abattoir and from that day on not eating meat was simple. I guarantee that the vast majority of people would realise it was wrong if they saw it firsthand too.
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  13. #13
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    I think there is a lot of misconception around that if animals weren't going into the food chain they would have a long and happy life....WRONG! if they didn't go into the food chain they wouldn't exist, all modern farm animals have been selectively bred down from ancient times...for meat, no animals means empty fields, not all ground is suitable for arable, it isn't around here that's why its stock rearing, that's animals to you. mostly sheep here.
    " Does not suffer fools gladly!"

  14. #14
    the belt fed wombat gee's Avatar
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    I ve often thought of vegetarianism as hateful people in abattoirs like this turn my stomach. I personally like sustainability in food. Ie a cat eats a mouse a hawk hunts a rabbit. My point is we as a society need to have a long look at ourselves and nature to realise vegan or carnivore were messing it all up. A lot of land on moors and high fells can't grow veg or get as high returns of calorific food intake as grazing animals.
    We as humans are morons take pheasant shoots near me very popular but pointless wasted land and food. Result an abundance of rats at the all you can eat feeders all winter. We should eat stuff that's cocking ecosystems up (yes I know your going to say eat toes elf then) mass flocks of pigeons carrying disease like bird flu rabbits grazing grass and shrubs and veg to nothing, instead we rely on monuculture which buggers land up. Land needs manure . So meat eaters should Learn to listen to vegans and vegans do help reduce the demand for factory meat. But the right way is the sustainable way. Take deer there abundant and they wreck trees everything needs to be balanced. But twats winding animals up at the end of there life is I agree aim wrong.
    Last edited by gee; 11-03--2017 at 08:36 PM.
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    Radiant Being emmadilemma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gee
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    But the right way is the sustainable way.
    I just can't see how this is possible anymore when it comes to eating meat. Meat used to be a luxury that people would have occasionally and for poorer people even less.

    Now the ever expanding human population wants cheap meat every day sometimes several times and the only way to keep up with those demands is to intensively farm the animals. There just isn't enough space..

    Have just pulled these numbers off a website...every year in the uk 2.6 million cattle, 10 million pigs, 14.5 million sheep and lambs, 80 million fish and 950 million birds are slaughtered for human consumption. The numbers are staggering...
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  16. #16
    the belt fed wombat gee's Avatar
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    It's simple there's more of us and more greedy overweight people. Would veg be the answer though how would we fill demand? Would that be more gm crops more spraying more intensely worked land more cultivated land more trees cleared to fuel demand. My curve ball to factory farmed stuff especially in America is alternative eat things in abundance that are there now and who's consumption may strum a small balance. Squid in the seas, rabbit, crow,pigeon,he'll even jackdaws are overrunning us if we could eat rats would that be wrong humans and rats are surviving to well both consume and spread disease. I love the idyl of vegitarianism but alone vegetarianism would still create harm to the environment unless we all grew our own enough to survive.
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  17. #17
    The truth is that the human population is too much for earth, if we didn't eat meat then the planet would be stripped of all other food sources. And we don't have field space to replace this, along with the ever growing populations housing needs. I'm sure the government are aware of this and will probably blow up a country or two to use for farming but maybe I'm going too deep. Anyhow I found the video quite disturbing myself, i could never work in such places.
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    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    That is so right Ma, I don't eat any factory farmed meat, the stuff I get is all reared in fields in the open air, from a reputable local supplier.
    One of the things I often notice, is just how many people claim to be doing this -- it's like they see I have a badge with "vegan" written on it, and somehow feel obligated to tell me how little meat they eat, how well it's reared etc. You'd almost think factory farming didn't exist.
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    Thing is, no matter how ethical we may think our meat is, they still end being crammed into truck going to the same "approved" slaughterhouses, typically many years before their natural life cycle should end. Look at the way some of those sheep were treated in the video, and sheep are one of the most "free range" animals there are.
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    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    I think there is a lot of misconception around that if animals weren't going into the food chain they would have a long and happy life....WRONG! if they didn't go into the food chain they wouldn't exist, all modern farm animals have been selectively bred down from ancient times...for meat, no animals means empty fields, not all ground is suitable for arable, it isn't around here that's why its stock rearing, that's animals to you. mostly sheep here.

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    Originally Posted by Len
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    The truth is that the human population is too much for earth, if we didn't eat meat then the planet would be stripped of all other food sources. And we don't have field space to replace this, along with the ever growing populations housing needs. I'm sure the government are aware of this and will probably blow up a country or two to use for farming but maybe I'm going too deep. Anyhow I found the video quite disturbing myself, i could never work in such places.
    Both these statements are quite similar.

    Firstly, not being born is not the same as being killed - having never experienced life, then there is no suffering, no awareness and no sentience.

    Most farmed animals are artificially inseminated in order to keep the populations high - there's no nature involved here, we're about as far as removed from the food chain as possible.

    Farm animals need to be fed, and feeding food animals for meat is far less efficient than feeding humans with plant based foods - and as such this food is already being grown.

    Sadly they're not all chowing down on grass, far from it, and as such the land used to grow animal feed is causing massive problems to our environment in terms of deforestation, climate change, species loss and pollution.

    If, instead of producing feed for animals, we stopped breeding the animals and focused our farming resources elsewhere, it could make an enormous impact on world hunger and the environment, and that's without even considering the cruelty involved.

    Yes, of course there are too many people - but only if we keep consuming at the current rate. Should we experience a massive shift in the way we do food, we could potentially sustain a much larger population for many years to come.

    This article is just one that highlights some of the the environmental damage of animal agriculture:


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    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gee
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    My point is we as a society need to have a long look at ourselves and nature to realise vegan or carnivore were messing it all up.
    Being human means we do damage, the act of consuming anything causes harm - but we can't use unavoidable harm as a justification for harm that we can avoid.

    All agriculture will result in the incidental deaths of some animals - pesticides, cultivation, harvesting, deforestation etc. all need to be addressed, but the largest cause of global warming, environmental destruction, loss of habitat, species extinction and even ocean pollution is the meat industry - so much so that eradicating it could solve world hunger and reverse climate change.

    It's like, rather than accept this and work on changing it, people seem to be determined to find better ways of doing the wrong thing - and in doing this, we still end up with the suffering displayed in the video above.
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  21. #21
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    The majority of climate change research is focused on preserving mankind. That's why we do it.

    99% of all species that ever lived on Earth are extinct, the vast majority before Humans evolved, when humans are gone life will carry on. If you really want to enjoy your guilt consider this - by preserving todays life you are denying life to the species not yet evolved.

    Be realistic, we are the ultimate expression of evolution, let us care for the planet that spawned us so as not to go the same way as the dinosaurs - but also consider that if we do suffer an extinction event ( man-made or not ) life will continue, evolve, and maybe surpass us.

  22. #22
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    One of the things I often notice, is just how many people claim to be doing this -- it's like they see I have a badge with "vegan" written on it, and somehow feel obligated to tell me how little meat they eat, how well it's reared etc. You'd almost think factory farming didn't exist.
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    Thing is, no matter how ethical we may think our meat is, they still end being crammed into truck going to the same "approved" slaughterhouses, typically many years before their natural life cycle should end. Look at the way some of those sheep were treated in the video, and sheep are one of the most "free range" animals there are.
    I seem to be mopping up at the other end. I now tend to buy reduced, sell by date meat. I generally pay cost price + or - % this would otherwise end up in landfill. It's not claiming to be anything to do with ethical. I'm far from ethical and Im more than aware of the cruelty in such establishments and that involved in the hunter empire. I've shot, trapped and chased a lot of animals in my life. There's never the easy clean kill, unless it's done with a cannon I am neither a crack shot or own the best killing machine. I really would except a vegetarian/vegan world. There's more variety these days and choice of purchase points for a vegetarian. I fear we will be forced into avoiding meat in the future. Price will determine its affordability for most, unless antibiotics can't keep meat eating safe-ish.

    Humans can always justify their (meat eating) actions and will defend those actions with a multidue of self belief and statements. We hear the stuff your campaigners say. We know there's truth and evidence to support what they say. Meat is sociably exceptable and like heroin, If it's constantly around us, it's far more difficult to willingly avoid it once we have a taste for the good stuff. I also fear for the escalation of the meat industry and subsequent cruelty involved. Far more people want meat in the world now than ever before.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    Thing is, no matter how ethical we may think our meat is, they still end being crammed into truck going to the same "approved" slaughterhouses,
    Nope, not here.

  24. #24
    For vegans, is there any acceptable way to euthanize animals at all? Does it opinion vary on that, or is it totally unacceptable that an animal is exploited/killed to feed humans?

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