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Thread: We should have stayed or Why it's good we're leaving!

  1. #553
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA...oh wow,
    Now you are telling us that if we 1/2 our money we will have twice as much freedom! LOL...PM me for the address to send me half your cash!!!!!
    Where did I say that?

    If you cant be happy with enough money and enough time to enjoy a healthy life. Your kinda defeated before you start.

    I probably live on a lot less than you do. There is many worthwhile causes worthy of any spare cash I may have. But your welcome to get in line.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  2. #554
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    If brexit does lead to recession and job losses, will brexiters take responsibility and accept that their vote is what led to it, or will they point the finger and blame somebody else, after all it was 'the people' who spoke, or so they say.
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    Last edited by rhythm; 17-10--2017 at 05:46 PM.

  3. #555
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Where did I say that?

    If you cant be happy with enough money and enough time to enjoy a healthy life. Your kinda defeated before you start.

    I probably live on a lot less than you do. There is many worthwhile causes worthy of any spare cash I may have. But your welcome to get in line.

    I would not repeat your first paragraph to your boss, he or she might get the wrong idea and cut your pay.

    As for the second, I think the farmers will need it more than me.

  4. #556

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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    If brexit does lead to recession and job losses, will brexiters take responsibility and accept that their vote is what led to it, or will they point the finger and blame somebody else, after all it was 'the people' who spoke, or so they say.
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    They will never take responsibility. They'll put the blame on foreigners, the loony left, the unemployed, the disabled, the hippies, the gypsie, you know, those who don't have a home and live in a van.
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  5. #557
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    They will never take responsibility. They'll put the blame on foreigners, the loony left, the unemployed, the disabled, the hippies, the gypsie, you know, those who don't have a home and live in a van.

    I think it's no joke either, given some of the reactionary crap I've been reading on this site recently. What next? Hitler, he wasn't all bad? Poor people, if you are hungry dog shit makes a good meal?

  6. #558
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    If brexit does lead to recession and job losses, will brexiters take responsibility and accept that their vote is what led to it, or will they point the finger and blame somebody else, after all it was 'the people' who spoke, or so they say.
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    Sure if it stops folk moaning. Because let's face it, this Country has been in such amazing shape since 1991, we couldn't possibly go into a recession while being in bed with Europe could we?





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    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  7. #559
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    I think it's no joke either, given some of the reactionary crap I've been reading on this site recently. What next? Hitler, he wasn't all bad? Poor people, if you are hungry dog shit makes a good meal?
    Just how low can you go?
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  8. #560
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
    Climate change is REAL and we need to tackle it at home first
    Climate change is a global problem that needs tackling through International agreement. The greed and ambition of individual Countries is the biggest problem it faces. Already the Tories have talked of Britain becoming a tax haven and there's been plenty of talk that they're keen to drop regulations that are 'inefficient for businesses'.


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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
    (Brexit) It's not just about the here and now though, it's about our future. The new way to farm, trade, fairer way of living as sustainably as possible. Correcting or addressing the very many issues that many of us have campaigned for or against and yet to see that change come to fruition or best practice achieved.
    Do you really believe that? The Tories have formed committees to go through the regulations and strike out what they don't like without even reference to Parliament. e.g.


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    Originally Posted by The Guardian
    The cornerstones of wildlife and habitat protection have been quietly left out of the withdrawal bill ripping the heart out of environmental law, campaigners say.

    A key principle under EU law which provides a robust legal backstop against destruction of the environment – the precautionary principle - has been specifically ruled out of the bill as a means of legal challenge in British courts.
    Based on the idea that the environment is unowned, the precautionary principle creates a bottom line forcing those who want to build or develop, for example, to prove in law what they are doing will not damage the environment.

    Other key elements of EU legal protection, the polluter pays, and the principle that preventative action should be taken to avert environmental damage, have also been ruled out in the bill as a means to protect the natural world from damage by policymakers, development or industry after Brexit.

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  9. #561
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chazz
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    Climate change is a global problem that needs tackling through International agreement.
    The leaders of this world can't seem to grasp that it is everywhere and they all have to be on the same team to tackle it, they have lots of meetings where they talk about it, whilst often turning up to these meeting using lots of polluting modes of transport. Unfortunately not everyone is on the same team.
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  10. #562

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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    I think it's no joke either, given some of the reactionary crap I've been reading on this site recently. What next? Hitler, he wasn't all bad? Poor people, if you are hungry dog shit makes a good meal?

    Bit of a dodgy juxtaposition there.

    Never read " mein kampf " but have had quotes from it thrust in my face now and then. I can assure you that placing hitler next to the poor might like to eat dog shit is mistaken.

    That evil, murdering, dirtbag, racist Nazi bastard alledges starting off with some fairly decent, empathic views of the economically disadvantaged that might warm the hearts of even the most dispicable capitalists.

    Hitler became bad......but it does seem that he was not always so.....

    The English, French, Spanish and Portuguese travelled far and wide not so long ago invading, enslaving, trashing, exploiting and murdering various ethnicities and still refuse to pay suitable reparations.

    Germany at least tried reparations toward an horrifically treated ethnicity.
    Last edited by zendaze; 18-10--2017 at 01:24 AM.

  11. #563
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    I am aware of our governments stance on rejecting EU laws and their intent to govern our Country by British law only.

    To adopt 'precautionary principle' EU laws in any form other than 'adopted' would leave the UK government open and accountable to EU bodies and Courts. To which our Government regarding Brexit have clearly stated 'they' will not be beholden to EU laws after Brexit.

    Under the Countryside and wildlife act along with Town and Planning and other laws, developers and government bodies will still have a duty to comply with and safeguard against.


    Now frightening as it may sound, there is a lot of sense in 'keeping' control.' If for any reason the EU should wish to prevent a UK development on grounds of 'damaging the environment' and (it could really be argued that most development can damage 'a environment') meanwhile the EU could have a field day, not only halting development, but tying up government departments in costly court cases. We will no longer be members of the EU, Therefor, No longer accountable to ANY EU Laws or EU bodies. Lock stock and barrel.
    That doesn't mean the developers or our Government have a free run at damaging our environment, just that our own courts will deal with any issues.

    We will probably see that the UK legal system creates a New law or adopts some of, to cover similar protection for the environment.
    Only a fool would rush through such a all encompassing laws without further consultation and consideration, along with the very many previous laws that will no longer apply.

    The same applies with the 'polluter pays principal'

    So although many international bodies/organisations are expressing concerns. It's early days for agreeing 'in principle' laws and only time will tell what laws we keep, adopt or pass or scrap.

    Our Government made their intentions regarding Governing laws and bodies clear when Brexit discussions first started.

    Climate change will have far reaching consequences for all Countries in one way or another and each Country will have a duty to address climate change. Regardless of EU membership.
    Last edited by alices wonderland; 18-10--2017 at 02:14 AM.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  12. #564
    AW, can you name the number of EU laws that have passed against the UK governments wishes?

    I can

    None, not one, nada, zilch, fuck all. The Uk has a unilateral the veto on every single EU law passed. Any power the EU has over regulations are ones it has been given by the uk, by the So if the EU is this big evil entity, it is one the Uk was instrumental in creating and propagating, the Uk was driving force in the EU from day one, pushed hard to achieve things the Uk politicians are now saying are bad. The EU as it is now is something the UK was key in creating.

    I just do not understand the arguements you make, Britain can do its boom bust cycle all on its own, the 2008 financial crisis had zilch to do with the EU, in fact Britain prior to Brexit was pulling itself out of the difficulties faster than any other eu nation, now, it is being left behind.

    Brexit is nothing more than a once every 200 year blatant power grab by the elite you so hate, iit will set Tory policy in law with no parliamentary oversight. The rich will get richer, the poorer will get poorer, everyone but the top 1 % will lose out. Are already losing out.

    And for what? A handful less foreign voices in your local Lidl? National borders are a fake construct, nationalism is a wart on society, we have one planet and every fucker in it should have the freedoms to live, work, travel, play, love anyone and everywhere within it.

    Yes, the EU has its failures, it seems to have fallen head over heals in love with its own beaurocracy, but as a member Britain could control and direct it, Britain has used its veto more than any other nation, but now from the outside the EU will go the way it has wanted to for 2 decades, and since it is this massive power block starting just 60 miles away everything it does will effect the UK, Brexit or no Brexit.
    Last edited by Languid Virago; 18-10--2017 at 07:21 AM.

  13. #565
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Languid Virago
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    AW, can you name the number of EU laws that have passed against the UK governments wishes?

    I can

    None, not one, nada, zilch, fuck all. The Uk has a unilateral the veto on every single EU law passed. Any power the EU has over regulations are ones it has been given by the uk, by the So if the EU is this big evil entity, it is one the Uk was instrumental in creating and propagating, the Uk was driving force in the EU from day one, pushed hard to achieve things the Uk politicians are now saying are bad. The EU as it is now is something the UK was key in creating.

    I just do not understand the arguements you make, Britain can do its boom bust cycle all on its own, the 2008 financial crisis had zilch to do with the EU, in fact Britain prior to Brexit was pulling itself out of the difficulties faster than any other eu nation, now, it is being left behind.

    Brexit is nothing more than a once every 200 year blatant power grab by the elite you so hate, iit will set Tory policy in law with no parliamentary oversight. The rich will get richer, the poorer will get poorer, everyone but the top 1 % will lose out. Are already losing out.

    And for what? A handful less foreign voices in your local Lidl? National borders are a fake construct, nationalism is a wart on society, we have one planet and every fucker in it should have the freedoms to live, work, travel, play, love anyone and everywhere within it.

    Yes, the EU has its failures, it seems to have fallen head over heals in love with its own beaurocracy, but as a member Britain could control and direct it, Britain has used its veto more than any other nation, but now from the outside the EU will go the way it has wanted to for 2 decades, and since it is this massive power block starting just 60 miles away everything it does will effect the UK, Brexit or no Brexit.
    No I can't, like you say, there has been none, because we have vetoed what is undesirable to the UK or unnecessary.
    Personally I would have expected our Government to adopt 'all' if not most of the laws/regulations we abide by now, after Brexit. If only to save time/ money. Having the opportunity to reconsider these 'old' decisions/laws must be favourable to any government or government in opposition.

    If we are not members of the EU, but still tied to 'precautionary principle' or ' polluter pays' we tie ourselves up again with EU laws Etc with bodies like the E35 on issues of Climate Change, We would possibly remain accountable/answerable to European courts etc.
    New laws, levels and limits get passed or amended all the time in the EU. There is potential for the EU will be flexing its muscles at every turn. Like you pointed out, The EU are in love with Bureaucracy.

    The UK was instrumental in structuring the EU. What was agreed upon was deemed necessary for a large community and many of those agreements/laws may not apply after Brexit. Therefor it's our governments duty to overhaul, amend, change or bring in new.

    I dont see 'this' government or past examples of UK governments surviving to govern in the future. The UK has the drive and passion to lead by example and I hope a progressive 'new' party is born and elected soon enough.
    However 'sayings' like this :The rich will get richer, the poorer will get poorer, everyone but the top 1 % will lose out. probably won't change with any government in any Country for the foreseeable future. Nature of the game init. Money makes money!

    Ive not once blamed the EU for any recession or financial crisis. I can only blame the population as a whole and the Government at the time. I do however believe joining the Common market EEC, the common agriculture policy, single market and subsequent farming subsidies and payment schemes and our own Government, for seriously neglecting the many small family farms and small farming businesses, bringing about their demise for many of them.

    Brexit!
    And for what? Independence for the UK. Removal from the single market in favour of greater trading freedom/ world trade. Better redistribution of funds. Control over immigration, migration and economic migration. Sustainable housing and social/health security. Flexible regulation. Public ownership and reduced shareholding. Managed Borders with permissive movement rights, inc work permits/Visa etc. Job security, end of zero hour contracts etc. Better directed farm payments, if any at all. We still pay farmers 'not to grow food crops' Britain friendly management and accountability.

    Btritain is a Island and there's is nothing 'fake' about our Border concept.
    I do agree we are one world and ideally freedom of movement to work and play worldwide would be ideal. However, we know the world isn't like that and daily problems arise around the world from not only manning borders, but also trying to navigate them. There may be a time when we all try our best to congregate in Newzealand. But someone will then have the job of standing at customs explaining "its full, you can't come in" while someone else tries to rent them a deckchair.

    i have a dream for our children. A sustainable, safe, vibrant, healthy place to live, work and play. Managed and maintained by its people and appointed, accountable Government. World peace would be cool and assurance no asteroid bigger than a Morris Miner will get through the Ozone, but I can't be greedy.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  14. #566
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Because when Brexit comes the British empire will rise up again and rule the world, spitfires will fly over the distant horizon on a summers eve with people looking in pure awe, miners will go back to the pits and dig that precious black gold, our ship building yards will be the envy of the world, people will gather as families and listen to the wireless in an evening. People in villages across the UK will hold village fairs and bake cakes to celebrate being British, there will be a massive labour shortage due to the new golden age, wages will rise, unions will once again have power, a house will cost three pounds fifty, people will be able to afford to live, union jacks will fly from the roof tops, and everything will be the best it has ever been, because we left the evil EU.

    Then all of a sudden the alarm clock goes off and it turns out it was all a dream
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  15. #567
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    Because when Brexit comes the British empire will rise up again and rule the world, spitfires will fly over the distant horizon on a summers eve with people looking in pure awe, miners will go back to the pits and dig that precious black gold, our ship building yards will be the envy of the world, people will gather as families and listen to the wireless in an evening. People in villages across the UK will hold village fairs and bake cakes to celebrate being British, there will be a massive labour shortage due to the new golden age, wages will rise, unions will once again have power, a house will cost three pounds fifty, people will be able to afford to live, union jacks will fly from the roof tops, and everything will be the best it has ever been, because we left the evil EU
    are you lonely? You really need to get out more. Oh forgot, you don't know the way!
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    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  16. #568
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    are you lonely? You really need to get out more. Oh forgot, you don't know the way!
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    Are you lonely, do you need a friend?
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  17. #569

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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    *snip*
    I do agree we are one world and ideally freedom of movement to work and play worldwide would be ideal. However, we know the world isn't like that and daily problems arise around the world from not only manning borders, but also trying to navigate them. There may be a time when we all try our best to congregate in Newzealand. But someone will then have the job of standing at customs explaining "its full, you can't come in" while someone else tries to rent them a deckchair.

    But we have that ideal in the EU, Britain promoted expansion of it to make a larger perfect area, and then people like you voted to remove opportunities and freedoms an open border area gives.
    If it is an ideal you agree with, why vote to make things worse? We have an awesome open border EU, the EU is seriously pro humans rights and worker rights, pro citizen freedoms. Things I would have thought you would agree with. I cannot help but wonder if 99% of you knowledge and attitude to the EU has come from The Daily Mail, or the Sun, the British media and politicians have used to EU as a whipping boy from day one, I would guess 99% of what the average Brit knows about the EU is a blatant lie or wrong, straight bananas is brilliant example. Do you even know who your MEP is? have you ever contacted him/her? got 8n loved 8n finding out info on hot button subjects that you have an interest in, i know I have.

    As to the rest of your arguements, my attitude to them can be summed up simply, you have way more faith in British politicians to do the right thing than I ever will. You have noble ideals I cannot criticise, but seem to be living in La La land about the likelihood of the British electing a party that will do more than fuck over its citizens for short term profit and power.

    Britain will never be great again, we are a service led country sitting on the edge of much more interesting places. And have just one thing going for, this leads to a distorted view of how important the UK is in the rest of the world, we export culture and language, but that is all we export.

    Even now, no one else cares we are leaving the EU, their attitude is “ go one, get on with it then” bit like your dog taking a shit on the verge of the road, they know it is happening, don’t care too much about paying attention to it and will have forgotten about it in 5 minutes time, it is after all just a sticky smelly mess someone else will have to clear up or step in.
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  18. #570
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Just how low can you go?
    Mercifully, not as low as some here.

  19. #571
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    No I can't, like you say, there has been none, because we have vetoed what is undesirable to the UK or unnecessary.
    Personally I would have expected our Government to adopt 'all' if not most of the laws/regulations we abide by now, after Brexit. If only to save time/ money. Having the opportunity to reconsider these 'old' decisions/laws must be favourable to any government or government in opposition.

    If we are not members of the EU, but still tied to 'precautionary principle' or ' polluter pays' we tie ourselves up again with EU laws Etc with bodies like the E35 on issues of Climate Change, We would possibly remain accountable/answerable to European courts etc.
    New laws, levels and limits get passed or amended all the time in the EU. There is potential for the EU will be flexing its muscles at every turn. Like you pointed out, The EU are in love with Bureaucracy.

    The UK was instrumental in structuring the EU. What was agreed upon was deemed necessary for a large community and many of those agreements/laws may not apply after Brexit. Therefor it's our governments duty to overhaul, amend, change or bring in new.

    I dont see 'this' government or past examples of UK governments surviving to govern in the future. The UK has the drive and passion to lead by example and I hope a progressive 'new' party is born and elected soon enough.
    However 'sayings' like this :The rich will get richer, the poorer will get poorer, everyone but the top 1 % will lose out. probably won't change with any government in any Country for the foreseeable future. Nature of the game init. Money makes money!

    Ive not once blamed the EU for any recession or financial crisis. I can only blame the population as a whole and the Government at the time. I do however believe joining the Common market EEC, the common agriculture policy, single market and subsequent farming subsidies and payment schemes and our own Government, for seriously neglecting the many small family farms and small farming businesses, bringing about their demise for many of them.

    Brexit!
    And for what? Independence for the UK. Removal from the single market in favour of greater trading freedom/ world trade. Better redistribution of funds. Control over immigration, migration and economic migration. Sustainable housing and social/health security. Flexible regulation. Public ownership and reduced shareholding. Managed Borders with permissive movement rights, inc work permits/Visa etc. Job security, end of zero hour contracts etc. Better directed farm payments, if any at all. We still pay farmers 'not to grow food crops' Britain friendly management and accountability.

    Btritain is a Island and there's is nothing 'fake' about our Border concept.
    I do agree we are one world and ideally freedom of movement to work and play worldwide would be ideal. However, we know the world isn't like that and daily problems arise around the world from not only manning borders, but also trying to navigate them. There may be a time when we all try our best to congregate in Newzealand. But someone will then have the job of standing at customs explaining "its full, you can't come in" while someone else tries to rent them a deckchair.

    i have a dream for our children. A sustainable, safe, vibrant, healthy place to live, work and play. Managed and maintained by its people and appointed, accountable Government. World peace would be cool and assurance no asteroid bigger than a Morris Miner will get through the Ozone, but I can't be greedy.
    Independence for the UK, are you serious? The UK is not a workers' state! Last time I checked 99% of us have to work for a living, so it will be independence for the 1%, who have it anyway, and hard work for the rest of us. What part of that are you having trouble understanding? The laws the UK parliament will pass will benefit the 1%, they will get the hindmost and you'll join the rest of us scrambling over what is left.
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  20. #572
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zendaze
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    Bit of a dodgy juxtaposition there.

    Never read " mein kampf " but have had quotes from it thrust in my face now and then. I can assure you that placing hitler next to the poor might like to eat dog shit is mistaken.

    That evil, murdering, dirtbag, racist Nazi bastard alledges starting off with some fairly decent, empathic views of the economically disadvantaged that might warm the hearts of even the most dispicable capitalists.

    Hitler became bad......but it does seem that he was not always so.....

    The English, French, Spanish and Portuguese travelled far and wide not so long ago invading, enslaving, trashing, exploiting and murdering various ethnicities and still refuse to pay suitable reparations.

    Germany at least tried reparations toward an horrifically treated ethnicity.

    Who said satire was dead! Well, at least this shows if it's not dead, it's only mortally wounded.

  21. #573
    Heavenly Creature
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Midlands
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    [QUOTE=rhythm;1611027]Because when Brexit comes the British empire will rise up again and rule the world, spitfires will fly over the distant horizon on a summers eve with people looking in pure awe, miners will go back to the pits and dig that precious black gold, our ship building yards will be the envy of the world, people will gather as families and listen to the wireless in an evening. People in villages across the UK will hold village fairs and bake cakes to celebrate being British, there will be a massive labour shortage due to the new golden age, wages will rise, unions will once again have power, a house will cost three pounds fifty, people will be able to afford to live, union jacks will fly from the roof tops, and everything will be the best it has ever been, because we left the evil EU.

    Bring it on, Comrade!
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