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Thread: We should have stayed or Why it's good we're leaving!

  1. #409
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    That was funny, that truck driver got owned,
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    Glad you loved it, funny how the anti-immigration brigade aren't concerned about the amount of Brits living abroad. Those Brits eh? They go over to Europe, take the best jobs, sleep with the native women and bring their kids over too!

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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Interesting admission from Corbin today. Preferring to be out of the EU, In order to implement some of his own preferred policies. He really could be the very person to move this Country forward, if he can command the support of other MP's and voters young and old.
    He admitted that a long time ago. As for implementing his own policies, they seem pretty old hat to me, having been tried and failed in the 60s and 70s.

  2. #410
    Heavenly Creature ayami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chazz
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    At no point did I say that being concerned about immigration was racist. I'm just pointing out the innacuracy of you saying that reducing immigration was not an issue for many when it comes to discussing Brexit.
    Is it possible to be anti-racist and anti-immigration at the same time?

  3. #411
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    Glad you loved it, funny how the anti-immigration brigade aren't concerned about the amount of Brits living abroad. Those Brits eh? They go over to Europe, take the best jobs, sleep with the native women and bring their kids over too!
    There are loads of British immigrants in Europe, but nobody complains about them, it appears some of them are tax dodgers as well, I have recently read about Spain clamping down on British immigrants who do not declare all their assets and pay the taxes they are supposed to pay.
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  4. #412

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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    Is it possible to be anti-racist and anti-immigration at the same time?
    Yes it is

    I remind you that for many who might be imagined as racist, immigration, in itself, is not an issue. The resultant competition (from net immigration) for economic parity (house, home, peace,quietitude,space, quality of life etc etc) may become an issue.
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  5. #413
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    There are loads of British immigrants in Europe, but nobody complains about them, it appears some of them are tax dodgers as well, I have recently read about Spain clamping down on British immigrants who do not declare all their assets and pay the taxes they are supposed to pay.
    My mother moved to Spain around 1995 following her retirement from fulltime work here in the UK. She lives off of her savings/pension. Pays her own way. Claims nothing, as that appears the way it is for those from the UK retiring in Spain. Gets no financial support from the Spanish, nor the British government, other than the state pension she paid into all her working life. If she or her husband die whilst living in Spain, the Spanish government can claim the deceased share of any property owned in Spain supposedly? If the Spanish government revoke her citizen status because of Brexit, she would have to consider where she goes, back to the UK or to Australia.

    The Spanish along with the Portuguese governments tightened up on Tax evasion several years ago. Insisting that those with property outside the Country declared it along with any income.
    Last edited by alices wonderland; 24-09--2017 at 10:18 PM.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  6. #414

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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    There are loads of British immigrants in Europe, but nobody complains about them, it appears some of them are tax dodgers as well, I have recently read about Spain clamping down on British immigrants who do not declare all their assets and pay the taxes they are supposed to pay.
    If you learned a few of the languages and interviewed the concerned populations you might hear some complaints.....

    Personally I can see that UK citizens have been primary drivers for inflation in land and property prices across much of Europe (for example).....those who benefit don't want to complain and those who do not benefit are generally too vulnerable to complain.
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  7. #415
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ayami
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    He admitted that a long time ago. As for implementing his own policies, they seem pretty old hat to me, having been tried and failed in the 60s and 70s.
    I was unaware that he could Identify (a positive) in leaving the EU, even though I felt compelled to vote Corbyn Labour in the last election and I proudly wore the 'support Corbyn' badge for the weeks running up to the election. knowing that would have made giving 'him' my vote an easier pill to swallow at the time.

    I'm now intrigued to know what 'social policies' he would like to propose/implement, that by remaining in the EU would be scampered?
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  8. #416
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zendaze
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    If you learned a few of the languages and interviewed the concerned populations you might hear some complaints.....
    sprechen sie deutsch?
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  9. #417

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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    My mother moved to Spain around 1995 following her retirement from fulltime work here in the UK. She lives off of her savings/pension. Pays her own way. Claims nothing, as that appears the way it is for those from the UK retiring in Spain. Gets no financial support from the Spanish, nor the British government, other than the state pension she paid into all her working life. If she or her husband die whilst living in Spain, the Spanish government can claim the deceased share of any property own supposedly? If the Spanish government revoke her citizen status because of Brexit, she would have to consider where she goes, back to the UK or to Australia.

    The Spanish along with the Portuguese governments tightened up on Tax evasion several years ago. Insisting that those with property outside the Country declared it along with any income.
    I believe state pension is paid but there are some strange rules associated with it.....FOR SOME REASON the top up social security benefit isn't available to potentials who might otherwise emmigrate for some of their retirement.

  10. #418
    Somewhere lamhdn pointed out that net migration would require, at least, more housing.

    It's not racist.....it is very obvious that the benefit of net immigration (where social housing programs are absent) goes to landlords and investors at quite severe cost to others.
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  11. #419
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    My mother moved to Spain around 1995 following her retirement from fulltime work here in the UK. She lives off of her savings/pension. Pays her own way. Claims nothing, as that appears the way it is for those from the UK retiring in Spain. Gets no financial support from the Spanish, nor the British government, other than the state pension she paid into all her working life. If she or her husband die whilst living in Spain, the Spanish government can claim the deceased share of any property owned in Spain supposedly?
    The biggest mistake is for her not to make a will in Spain and she must have it registered by a Notario or Spanish Lawyer. Not doing this creates long delays in her estate being settled. Due to EU regulations and because she is not a Spanish National she can have a UK 'style' will drawn up leaving her estate to her husband or children. When we were living in Spain our will allowed the surviving partner to inherit, while when a Spanish National dies their estate must go to the children, even if their husband or wife is still alive and in the property, which then they will only own half of. The property cannot be claimed by the State unless she is in debt to them.

  12. #420
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    What's the concern on here about people talking about immigration? Isn't it PC to mention it on here?

    Since when were hippies or alternative people politically correct anyway?

    Lets face it, immigration is a big overall issue. It is a big working-class jobs and pay issue. It is a big housing issue. It is a big social resources issue. So it's no good pretending that it doesn't exist. We have to face it and find a way of allowing it enough to be an advantage to our country, but not enough to overwhelm a reasonable standard of living for everyone already here.

    Some of the people most against further mass immigration, that I have talked to, have been people who were immigrants themselves only a few years ago, or whose parents brought them here as children.

    Because of the way the very poor and the under-privileged and the disabled are being targeted by the present government, these people often see mass immigration as direct competition for already very scant resources, be it jobs, housing, or medical and social resources. Like it or not, many of these are the very people who voted for leaving the EU.

    I also can't understand why a Mod wants to butt in with disapproval of what is being discussed on an open forum; especially when what is being discussed (by some of us) is backed up with facts. If people misbehave according to the rules of the forum, then some form of intervention should be expected, but for particular views to be singled out shows a sad lack of impartiality, and therefore unfitness for the job. Consider yourself reprimanded!
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  13. #421
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    I also can't understand why a Mod wants to butt in with disapproval of what is being discussed on an open forum; especially when what is being discussed (by some of us) is backed up with facts. If people misbehave according to the rules of the forum, then some form of intervention should be expected, but for particular views to be singled out shows a sad lack of impartiality, and therefore unfitness for the job. Consider yourself reprimanded!
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    Look at you telling off the Mods.........Viva la revolution
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  14. #422
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    I also can't understand why a Mod wants to butt in with disapproval of what is being discussed on an open forum; especially when what is being discussed (by some of us) is backed up with facts. If people misbehave according to the rules of the forum, then some form of intervention should be expected, but for particular views to be singled out shows a sad lack of impartiality, and therefore unfitness for the job. Consider yourself reprimanded!
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    Don't get all officious on me
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    just because I'm a mod doesn't stop me from expressing my views. I quoted the post I was responding to, which claimed that over the years very few here had actually blamed immigrants for causing economic disadvantage. I made it clear that wasn't the case by listing six comments about immigration within just the week before Ayami's post on the 18th. I also said "I'm not saying any of you don't have the right to talk about concerns regarding immigration, but don't be surprised at people finding the sheer volume of these concerns as saddening." (Note: causing saddening is not against the rules
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    )

    Then also when AW thought I was suggesting the comments were racist I made a clear statement "At no point did I say that being concerned about immigration was racist."

    I've no idea why you find it objectionable to be quoted for having the views you do, this forum only has rules about racism, there's no rule against discussing immigration.

    Your point about concern over immigration being a major factor in the Brexit vote echoes what I said at the end of my post, neither remainers or brexiters can hide from that.

    That all said, like Ayami, I find it sad that a hippy forum has ended up attracting so many that are against the free movement of people in Europe and have a right to make that point without it being anything to do with my role as a mod.
    Last edited by Chazz; 25-09--2017 at 01:58 AM.
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  15. #423
    Non of this matters NomadicRT's Avatar
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    Same old same old ...funny how immigration is never an issue when economies are booming and everyone is doing very nicely thank you very much,but as soon as shit hits the fan and money gets short the fingers start pointing and the scapegoating begins.

    So what happens when Europeans are stopped from coming,who is next on the list to blame for 'takin our.jobs,takin our ouses,using our ealth service for free' ? Indians Pakistsnis Chinese Nigerians? Brits have always been racist,I saw plenty of that when i was a kid to my.Italian half of the family and toward the black immigrants snd Indian immigrsnts who came here in the 60's and 70's to 'help build Britain' AKA do all the shit jobs Brits didnt want to do and get abused for the privilege....just like Poles and Romanians now.

    All the ssme bullshit rhetoric now as back then,'them darkies are takin over,takin our ouses takin our jobs'...now its the Europesns.

    Really dont make much difference to most of us on here whether pro or anti brexit because most of us going to be dead or in nursing home before any palpable benefit -.if any - is felt by most ordinary Britishers.So much disentanglement to do before Britain can rebuild trade links elsewhere and if anyone thinks trade with Europe will.be business as usual and that Britsin 'good ole blighty' will rule the world again then may I suggest a course of hard reality pills for the next 25 years.

    In case no one noticed the Asian economies dominate trade now and they havent even got going properly yet ,non of them are going to be terribly interested in supporting an old colonialist nation they have sn antagony toward..They will -as they are already - buy up one by one all of our most lucrative companies so non of the income will.benefit our own exchequer even if the company remains in Britain.
    Some African.countries are also on the verge of prosperity and already trading heavily with.the East so Britain has lost that market.Latin American countries same.
    Those companies still in British hands are shifting all their money abroad so no one here will benefit.

    Britain is a country trillions in debt with no great manufacturing base of its own and saddled with that debt for maybe 50 years which is going to be much harder for sny sort of rapid turnaround post Brexit.Government knows this,they are busy pulling rabbits out of hats and throwing dead cats on the tsble to distract us from the reality and who have no real clue how to solve the mess.No doubt too, many of them looking to May to give them breathing space to move all their assets to tax havens while the rest of us sit here pondering our future.We're in the midst of a big power and money grab by those who really control governments and nations futures and we can do more than watch from the sidelines and hope we get a share of some of it...keep hoping.

    I hope im wrong and things will not be bleak -not for my sake but my young kids who are growing up and will inherit this mess and the generstion who will ultimately have to sort it out and make a life for themselves..No surprise.i will advise them to emigrate ASAP.If I have the opportunity I will too.-either to Italy as im entitled or maybe if the CANZUK deal gets done well.who knows.certsinly I think the future is elsewhere and not Britain.

    A friend made me laugh the other dsy and said 'ah we'll be alright we're British we all pull together...' ha ha yes of course we will.....
    Last edited by NomadicRT; 25-09--2017 at 05:44 AM.
    Hebridean at heart..everywhere else is just somewhere on the way back there...

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