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Thread: We should have stayed or Why it's good we're leaving!

  1. #505
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    Hopefully once out of the EU. This government or the 'next' might value self-build, sustainable settlements.
    I don't see any reason why being in the EU has affected sustainable alternative developments.

  2. #506
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    I used to think that "they" just wanted us rounded up in cities and under their control, now it's just obvious "they" wanna kill us all ... Agenda 21, sneaky sods
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  3. #507
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    Hopefully once out of the EU. This government or the 'next' might value self-build, sustainable settlements. Even if it's a poor substitute for the social housing stock they wilfully sold off!
    I don't think the EU is the problem here, we just have strict planning laws, not to mention planning objections from paranoid Nimbys worrying about their precious house prices and views of a distant field.
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  4. #508
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    So much space. Why can't I have a little old place to park my wagon legally? "I hear this all the time." I do have/own enough land, more than enough land really. It's just that the law of the land won't let me 'reside on it.' I in turn wont let them build a shopping centre or roads on it or farmers farm it. It's land in limbo, set aside for nature by default and any animal that's not governed by today's society to utilise.

    Hopefully once out of the EU. This government or the 'next' might value self-build, sustainable settlements. Even if it's a poor substitute for the social housing stock they wilfully sold off!
    I don't know enough about it. You're obviously doing something good protecting that bit of land for creepy crawlies etc. Why can't you put a wagon on it? I thought if a 'building' was mobile then you don't need planning permission. I'm hugely ignorant here. Alternatively, why don't you trade your bit of land for a bit where you can have your wagon and paint it too. (You must have thought about this so I guess you are attached to your bit of land. Or maybe have other ties . . .) Still, you could get attached to another bit of land and then your life could develop positively in a hithertoo unexplored direction and with fewer restrictions.

    Hey, you mentioned Scotland before - I thought they were even more lax with their property laws? I feel like Don Quixote here battling against windmills - I obviously don't know your story. Anyway, good luck with it: I have heard of some willful souls getting planning permission from stubborn councils, through persistence. I am sure you'd inhabit your land beautifully.
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  5. #509
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    pssst . . . build something underground, moley style so they'll never discover it.

  6. #510
    Hopefully, after Brexit, politicians will stop being corrupt and will put the citizens interest before their own, and finally Santa Claus will bring me that 500,000 Ferrari I've always dreamed of. It is quite clear that the EU prevented Santa from delivering the Ferrari.

  7. #511
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    Hopefully, after Brexit, politicians will stop being corrupt and will put the citizens interest before their own, and finally Santa Claus will bring me that 500,000 Ferrari I've always dreamed of. It is quite clear that the EU prevented Santa from delivering the Ferrari.
    I had to wait ages in a supermarket queue the other day and I also stubbed my foot on the kitchen door. The EU is obviously to blame for this
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  8. #512
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Chazz
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    I don't see any reason why being in the EU has affected sustainable alternative developments.
    The EU has made land a bankers jigsaw through quotas and Subsidies. Forcing the need to retain and gain land for the agri-business handouts. The EU Is not about feeding a farming family, feeding a nation, maintaining rural jobs or communities, more market forces with food demands and surpluses.

    The EU will sooner have a crop ploughed in, a milk lake poured away, than offer it free to the worlds starving. The EU is a financial institution that needs to in force broad rules across many landscapes, to balance their books.

    It's more about income before farming for these large agri-business land managers, about re-investing in new, bigger machines, to cultivate larger crops with the highest EU subsidy returns attached. Top down incentives to grub out England's green and pleasant lands hedgerows, to expand into prairie estates owned by the city banks and investors (many from over seas) Feeding into wider agri-businesses that in-turn feed back into the government coffers in VAT and taxes.

    Washing out the small rural farms. Reducing landscape use diversity and reducing the labour force, who relied upon the many associated trades. Then sell off those rural humble workers dwellings to city folk for second homes. When at the end of the day 'This is England' & sustainably bled by EU quotas, financed by subsidies and massaged into future barren wastelands.

    Thousands of acres of Fenland within 20 miles of me right now. Will not sustain a crop in 20 years time. All because the EU and it's method of reward through land exploitation subsidies, for crops we were growing in abundance or could have grown sustainable elsewhere in the Countryside, if the farmers weren't to be fined for exceeding their potatoes growing quotas by a few extra acres grown and forcibly made to grow more wheat on their land instead.

    A farmer knows their farm better than the government agency, our government agencies know our farmers better than the EU governing bodies.

    By leaving the EU, British farmers will have more say in what, when and how they grow crops. Their (extra financial rewards/subsidies) will be to manage that crop growing in a sustainable and ecologically/environmentally sensitive way.
    Reward good practice and not greed.

    If we had stayed in the EU, One day in the near future, every farmer would have a red tractor. Would be told what to grow, when to grow it, how to grow it and more importantly how little they would be paid for it. The rest of us? Well we would get to drive our 'own' car on British roads, but only on a Sunday.
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    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  9. #513
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    By leaving the EU, British farmers will have more say in what, when and how they grow crops. Their (extra financial rewards/subsidies) will be to manage that crop growing in a sustainable and ecologically/environmentally sensitive way.
    Reward good practice and not greed.
    Demand will still dictate what farmers grow, you grow what people want or they buy elsewhere and you go out of business.
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  10. #514
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    Demand will still dictate what farmers grow, you grow what people want or they buy elsewhere and you go out of business.
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    You put a lot of thought into that! Simplified, they will grow what is right for their land, their equipment and their farming business. Yes you would hope they will grow what they expect/hope/know will grow and sell. The viable crop selection is quite wide. A farm operating on a rotation system won't grow a obscure 'potentially risky' crop to grow or market, on the off chance of selling it. Unless it benefits the soil directly or diversifying to try and reach new markets. The decision of what crop to grow should be made at the farm gate and not in Brussels. We cannot grow enough food ourselves to be sustainable and the selling of all farmed produce will be governed annually by crop quality/yield and world demand. We have our own 'reliable, dependable' farming agencies to give Nation wide advise to farmers including Ministry of Agriculture.

    Without the huge developed Agri-business we now have as a result of joining the then Common market and subsequently European Union controls. Many of the thousands of 'once' smaller British farms would have probably survived to date. Albeit diversified to some extent, along with a locally sourced food market, allowing many small holdings to feed into it. Which would have increased the patchwork diversity of food growers and rural dwellings.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  11. #515
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    The decision of what crop to grow should be made at the farm gate and not in Brussels. We cannot grow enough food ourselves to be sustainable and the selling of all farmed produce will be governed annually by crop quality/yield and world demand. We have our own 'reliable, dependable' farming agencies to give Nation wide advise to farmers including Ministry of Agriculture.
    If people do not want what a farmer is growing, there is nothing the farmer can do about it, a farmer can not dictate what people eat. If I am after a certain veg or fruit and I can not get it British grown, I will simply buy European grown, I eat what I want.

  12. #516
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    If people do not want what a farmer is growing, there is nothing the farmer can do about it, a farmer can not dictate what people eat. If I am after a certain veg or fruit and I can not get it British grown, I will simply buy European grown, I eat what I want.
    If a farmer wants to grow 20 or 200 acres of wheat, it's their business and their loss if they can't sell it. Why should the EU stop them or allow them only grow 10 acres or 100 acres, if his land is ready and better suited towards that crop, that year, instead of fining the farmer for doing what 'he/she/they' think best?

    ive turned sheep out on a acre of prime condition cabbages (grown on contract to Tesco or Sainsbury's but surplus to the amount of cabbages required in contract) I forget which supermarket. They forbid the farmer from growing for other supermarkets and to the market place. The farmer had to supply a known/agreed quota to not be penalised on his profit margin. So the farmer grows surplus to cover for any loss, incase of bad weather or pest infestation.

    The EU has a similar influence on what/when and how our farmers produce food and crops here in the UK. I'm simply saying let the farmer farm the way 'he/she/they' know best, with the support and guidance of the Ministery of Agriculture.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  13. #517
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    Alices wonderland - I bow down to your knowledge of farming. However I do wonder about this statement: "Without the huge developed Agri-business we now have as a result of joining the then Common market and subsequently European Union controls. Many of the thousands of 'once' smaller British farms would have probably survived to date. Albeit diversified to some extent, along with a locally sourced food market, allowing many small holdings to feed into it. Which would have increased the patchwork diversity of food growers and rural dwellings."

    You're saying UK farmers turned their backs on smaller farms towards Agri-business because of links to the common market / EU. It's hard to say what farmers would have done if the UK didn't join Europe. Surely that was the time all farmers had to consider such a proposition? In alter-uni, maybe UK farmers still would have had to compete with Europe and would have made the same decisions independently (or at the advice of the UK government) if we didn't join.

    As for Rhythm's comment about demand dictating what a farmer grows. Aw is right - there are a lot of choices a farmer can draw from, some may be taken for the sake of idealism, at a lower profit, the government can step in and support something that 'demand' doesn't necessarily defend and a canny farmer can educate people and change opinion. This latter takes place in many business institutions. Demand can be created from thin air, Coca Cola, a tonic for longevity, to fidget spinners. The first thing you learn in economics is the economy is not always predictable, there is a lot more than a simple formula of supply and demand.

    Pomegranates bought in a bit of money as a crop. But then it was replaced by poppies to produce heroin. Then pomegranates became a 'super food' (suddenly), and they became popular to grow again. Demand can be subverted / manipulated by other considerations.

    In a polarised world of black and white, I shouldn't admit this, but I am wondering if there can be a possible middle ground with this EU thing.


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  14. #518
    One life, live it Bernie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    I had to wait ages in a supermarket queue the other day The EU is obviously to blame for this
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    That's because of all the Eastern Europeans queueing up in front of you! They come over here, and buy up all the reduced food in the supermarkets. I thought everybody knew that

  15. #519
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bernie
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    That's because of all the Eastern Europeans queueing up in front of you! They come over here, and buy up all the reduced food in the supermarkets. I thought everybody knew that
    I buy stuff in the reduced section, I don't do a weekly shop, I pickup what I need everyday. There is always something in the reduced section that has to be used normally on the same day, that I can put to use.

  16. #520
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    I buy stuff in the reduced section, I don't do a weekly shop, I pickup what I need everyday. There is always something in the reduced section that has to be used normally on the same day, that I can put to use.
    If they closed the reduced section in our supermarket there is a fair chance I would starve to death!

  17. #521
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    I had to wait ages in a supermarket queue the other day and I also stubbed my foot on the kitchen door. The EU is obviously to blame for this
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    I just tried to buy three 175/65/R14 tyres. First port of call, a small established local business. Good quote experience, honest description, in stock, 'budget' tyre Siverstone 40 each 120 all in - for three tyres fitted. All employees working fitting tyres. "I may came back Monday, I'm in a rush right now" I tell him.

    2nd port of call ATS European LTD. Polish guy left alone at front desk in reception. Repeated tyre size I required three times. Offered cheapest tyre they sell. 136.60 I asked "how much per tyre" he couldn't work that out! He looked it up, some blue biro hand writing on the back page of a A4 note book. . Closed book, raised his shoulders, palmed both hands and repeated 136.60

    3rd port of call Formula one autocentres. 5 fitting bays, one bay in use. One guy sat on the floor on his bottom, just inside roller shutter doorway and leaning against the office wall. Another guy stood yards away and leaning on a sweeping brush. I acknowledged them both on the way in. Got a nod back and a vacant eyes up from the other, both European.
    English guy at reception, Yes mate, 2 x budget tyres in stock @ 31.00 each or 2 x 'other' in stock @ 34.30 each. Don't know when we will have another delivery, could be Monday or three days to order.

    I can see the advantage and disadvantage of employing economic migrant labour. I blame all the above business models. I'm Calling at breakers yard tomorrow. Pikey will fix it.
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    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  18. #522

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    Originally Posted by Bernie
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    That's because of all the Eastern Europeans queueing up in front of you! They come over here, and buy up all the reduced food in the supermarkets. I thought everybody knew that
    Once our beloved Nigel Farage turned up late for a meeting and blamed the Jimmy Grants for it! You couldn't make it up (but Nigel can!)

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  19. #523
    Heavenly Creature
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    Originally Posted by Daisysmum
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    I've come into this a bit late.

    I voted to remain. After 21 pages of posts, my reasons are a drop in the ocean. What really hacks me off is that is that 62% of the population of Scotland did too. All 32 council areas voted to remain.

    Northern Ireland also voted to remain by 55.8%.

    Both are larger majorities than the aggregate UK vote to leave.

    Oddly enough, because this is the united kingdom, this appears to have escaped that idiot wench May's attention as she thrusts us towards horrific standards of food hygiene, away from excellent research links and towards closer relations than ever with the crazy man across the pond. Sturgeon's cry freedom also seems to have dwindled to a whimper.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not another Scot that thinks 'Aye, bloody English foreign scum'. That lot are deplorable and should all probably be rounded up and locked in Ibrox.....oh sorry was that speciesist?

    I'm just very sick of the fact that if we are 'united' and this is a team of 4 countries, why do the opinions of the 2 furthest north rarely have the blindest bit of impact? Unless of course, we decide to leave, make dodgy deals to bail out flailing prime ministers or become terrorists.

    Scottish whinge over.

    On the point of immigrants - My Dad was an immigrant. But he was a white male who spoke English, and had a very similar cultural background to the Londoners he worked with at the MET.
    I'm entitled to an Irish passport because of him.
    Anyway, even the royal family are technically immigrants. You can't pinpoint someone and say 'well you just came to this country, and because of that you are an immigrant'. How far back down your own family tree would you have to go before you discovered your family came here from another country? How many generations before you are a naturalised Brit?

    Or is it as insidious as skin colour and/or language, like Dad, well your OK as long as you look and talk like the rest of us, share customs and your fundamental ideologies are akin to ours? Your not really an immigrant, you've just emigrated, that's OK.

    I remember reading, sorry can't provide the link you will just have to trust me that it didn't come from the mail/express/ or the sun - that the majority of leave voters lived in areas where there were low levels of 'immigrants', places like London (who also voted to remain), didn't get their opinions from the scandal sheets and the biased broadcasting corporation or it's associates (yep, still pissed about the Scottish referendum coverage...), they actually live it.

    Scotland, well, pick any city or town with a university, or two - almost all of them have more students from abroad than from Scotland, last count here it was 56% to 44% from Scotland (er...if you are from anywhere else in the UK you fall into the first bracket, there aren't a lot of you. Mainly the medics. Scotland has a reputation for churning out good doctors, you can tell them they all have cut glass accents. Med Soc ball is serious snob value, Med Sci is a piss up).
    It costs more for students who aren't from the UK (contrary to the statistics above student who are not Scottish but still from the UK get the advantage of cheaper courses; reputation isn't the only reason the medics come here, or to Glasgow to be Vets.) to study here, but Scotland is still cheaper than England.
    I was once advised not to go for a Masters unless I wanted to change disciplines or got a really dismal grade, as they would simply be rehashes of what I had covered. Most of the students on Masters degrees are from overseas. Very few are American.
    The links go both ways, May is effectively stuffing anyone here who has chosen to do any of their degree/PhD in Europe.

    Even in the teeny tiny town I call home the local doctors log in screen is in English, Gaelic (for political correctness, I only kids that speak it and a few adults and old folk) and Polish. Gaelic gets used least.

    I don't mind anyone living in the UK, I don't give a toss how long they have been here. I do get pissed off when they start hurting other people, family or otherwise. I can't understand that. However, that encompasses anyone even if they can trace their heritage directly back to the English Knights Templar or William Wallace. If that makes me racist, OK then I am.
    .

    were we no promised that no matter what if we stayed part of the uk we would be part of the eu? A major part in the. Referendum, something that swayed a large. Part of. The vote. Never mind devo fucking max the invisible promise
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  20. #524
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    You know what were right to leave, after all what do we need to trade with the. Countries next to us for? We. Buy everthing from china, appart fae beef. That comes. Fae south america. So we will ban trade with the neighbours. Guess thats soted then. Fuck our. Eu trade agrement who needs that
    we dinnae need them foreign nurses, doctors n dentists comming here, sorting our teeth, treeating our wounds n healing our illnesses, so we will stop them coming here, so thats that sorted then. Fucking immigrants.
    kin what stop the unskilled coming here n stealing the jobs or own folk are to lazy to get of there arse n do, why fucking bother your arse when the dole will give you a better life.
    then they take our houses, the cheek o it. They take the skank assed houses in skank assed streets that are classed as hard to. Rent. They have the cheak to make the lace better.
    Then to top it all off the cheaky cunt put more into the econamy than hey take out of it. Fucking immigrants making the place better.

    Ive lived in a fair few rough housing schemes n nowadays i would rather live in a block of eu immigrints than a block of my own countrymen. Less chance of getting my door put in, n my gear gone. At least with eu nationals i know most of them are working ppl, just like me. Not writing down every thing i own as i move in so they can sell it be fore the door goes in. Fucking immigrints making my life better
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  21. #525
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    It will be interesting watching farmers and growers trying to harvest their crops and produce without migrant workers, because British people don't seem to be queuing up for that kind of work.
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  22. #526
    TUMTeeTum Moderator Chazz's Avatar
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    I enjoyed reading that Pyke13, a lot of it gels with my experience. Where we live at present, the immigrants are generally more friendly and receptive than the English.
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  23. #527
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    It will be interesting watching farmers and growers trying to harvest their crops and produce without migrant workers, because British people don't seem to be queuing up for that kind of work.
    Fk it I do it , I'll make sure Christmas isn't cancelled. I like driving my old tractor with no cab.
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    Folk won't get out of bed if the air con ain't working.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  24. #528
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    The biggest reason ive got to hate brexit is completly personal n nothing to do with the eu, imiggramts, devo fucking max or any orhther ploitical bull shit.
    LEAVING THE EU STOPS ME BEING DAD TO MY SON!!!
    so you know what you bunch of brexit leaving fuckers go explain to me why leaving is a good idea!
    due to the fact i was a bit of. A wild child i cannot get an entry visa to anyplcae(firearms charges)
    my son lives in gemany, now i have to apply ffor a visa which i will be refused.
    So go on tell me how its a. Good idea o leave the. Eu?
    Your hatred of ppl you have never met has cost me all accsess. To my son. Cheers i means. Lot

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