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Thread: We should have stayed or Why it's good we're leaving!

  1. #49
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    see post 2.

  2. #50
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    Firstly considering 44% of our goods and services went to EU (2015)

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    Net benefit of membership is around 4% to 5% of GDP and membership has increased foreign investment into the UK.

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    The ECHR helps make the UK a better place, the UK helped create it and most of the rights are in UK law, I do not think a Tory bill of human rights would be as fair towards people.

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    Don't forget the free trade area, where there are no Tariffs, which there will be if we end up switiching to WTO tarriffs if we get a hard brexit. Europe is a market of 500million, that is find of good for trade.

    etc etc etc.
    Could that 44% be so high because the protectionism of the EU disallows us from free-trade with the rest of the world?

    The CBI suggests 4% to 5% of GDP by being a member of the EU but does it even mention the fact that there are countries in the wings who are already negotiating for trade deals to replace that "soon to be missing" 4%/5%?

    Why on earth do you keep bringing up the Tories as the problem with UK politics? Labour had the chair for many years and did what exactly? That aside, the odds are that even a "bad regime" (the EU) must be able to occasionally produce something good. The fact that the UK helped draft the laws and have incorporated much is arguably a good thing. Was that under a Tory or Labour government?????????

    Free Trade is a total red-herring because we had free trade long before we had the EU. Then those agreements were called EFTA and the EEC/ECM and we also traded freely with what is still known as The Commonwealth of Nations.
    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

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  3. #51
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    I find this all very boring, the referendum is over, everyone who wanted to vote has and the result is in, cant we just get on with finalising Brexit and move on?

  4. #52
    Transcending Red Dragon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    I find this all very boring, the referendum is over, everyone who wanted to vote has and the result is in, cant we just get on with finalising Brexit and move on?
    Hi Hagrid, regrettably, it would appear not.

    I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that we two should drop out of this thread and do something useful like bang our collective heads on a different wall because too many of the folk on here appear to be unaware of what went on before the current version of the EU tried to take a large bite out of our freedom to decide what goes on within the UK and who we can trade freely with.

    In fact, as of this post, I've unsubscribed from my own thread.
    "The European Union is just like a jigsaw puzzle, except the pieces all come from different puzzles". - Red Dragon

    "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us".
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  5. #53
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    Originally Posted by Red Dragon
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    Why on earth do you keep bringing up the Tories as the problem with UK politics? Labour had the chair for many years and did what exactly? That aside, the odds are that even a "bad regime" (the EU) must be able to occasionally produce something good. The fact that the UK helped draft the laws and have incorporated much is arguably a good thing. Was that under a Tory or Labour government?????????
    After years of cuts and austerity you do not think the Tories are the problem: they want to privatise the health service, the welfare changes have led to the deaths of disabled and vulnerable people, mental health services are becoming non existent, they are obsessed with home ownership rather than funding the building of new social housing for those on low income. Their policies seem to penalise the poor and help the wealthy. They do not care about normal everyday people, all they care about is business and money. I also understand that no political party is perfect, but the Tory party are terrible. If folk vote Tory again all they will get is more cuts and more austerity. The Tories seem to be using Brexit as a smokescreen to take peoples attention away from the years of damge they have done.

  6. #54
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    Originally Posted by Red Dragon
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    Hi Hagrid, regrettably, it would appear not.

    I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that we two should drop out of this thread and do something useful like bang our collective heads on a different wall because too many of the folk on here appear to be unaware of what went on before the current version of the EU tried to take a large bite out of our freedom to decide what goes on within the UK and who we can trade freely with.

    In fact, as of this post, I've unsubscribed from my own thread.
    as we have been in the EU for over 40 years, and a lot of Remainers are under this age, they have never known a Free Britain, which is a shame.

  7. #55

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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    I find this all very boring, the referendum is over, everyone who wanted to vote has and the result is in, cant we just get on with finalising Brexit and move on?
    No!

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  8. #56
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    as we have been in the EU for over 40 years, and a lot of Remainers are under this age, they have never known a Free Britain, which is a shame.
    This is not yesteryear though, when Britain stole and pillaged peoples lands for all they were worth, destroyed their cultures through the use of missionaries and commited some nasty atrocities, all under the labels of Imperialism and Empire.

  9. #57
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    This is not yesteryear though, when Britain stole and pillaged peoples lands for all they were worth, destroyed their cultures through the use of missionaries and commited some nasty atrocities, all under the labels of Imperialism and Empire.
    You have so obviously never lived in the socialist Britain that took place after WW2; even the Tories had then what would be called socialist policies today. Right up into the late 1970's I cannot recall any stealing and pillaging of other countries going on, either. In fact it was a time we were giving back those countries we had stolen in the century before.
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  10. #58
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    pre "the common market" we were free to do our own trade with whoever we wanted, NZ lamb and butter springs to mind, but under EU laws we cannot fix our own deals it has to be done collectively with 27 other countries having a say, in fact in some trade deals Britain dosent even have a seat at the negotiations. already we have about 20 countries outside the EU who want to do deals with a EU free Britain.

  11. #59
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    You have so obviously never lived in the socialist Britain that took place after WW2; even the Tories had then what would be called socialist policies today. Right up into the late 1970's I cannot recall any stealing and pillaging of other countries going on, either. In fact it was a time we were giving back those countries we had stolen in the century before.
    I think it all changed when Thatcher took power
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  12. #60
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    Thatcher didn't invade anywhere but she sorties out those Argies didn't she?

  13. #61
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    Thatcher didn't invade anywhere but she sorties out those Argies didn't she?
    Along with the miners and new age travellers ....Argentina were welcome to the Falklands , 255 British soldiers died for a tiny island the other side of the world.What a waste .
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  14. #62
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    Originally Posted by ma bungo
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    Along with the miners and new age travellers ....Argentina were welcome to the Falklands , 255 British soldiers died for a tiny island the other side of the world.What a waste .
    Many of who were merchant-seaman, untrained and unprepared to be in a war. It was fucking horrible down there
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  15. #63
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    Originally Posted by ma bungo
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    Along with the miners and new age travellers ....Argentina were welcome to the Falklands , 255 British soldiers died for a tiny island the other side of the world.What a waste .
    a tiny island that had no wish to be Argentinian, and still dosent to this day, if you remember the Argies INVADED the Falklands and they needed to be taught that this isn't allowed, and boy didn't the British Army teach them a lesson!!

  16. #64
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    You have so obviously never lived in the socialist Britain that took place after WW2; even the Tories had then what would be called socialist policies today. Right up into the late 1970's I cannot recall any stealing and pillaging of other countries going on, either. In fact it was a time we were giving back those countries we had stolen in the century before.
    After the second world war we were broke and borrowed a ton of money from the US, the empire fell apart because it was not affordable. Also, even though they did not play a direct part the US kind of had a hand in it, look what happened at Suez, that could have been taken by the British easily, but the US were having none of it. I think the American approach was for the end of colonialism and empire, which in turn helped them take world stage and be the top power, which they have been ever since, but it looks like that will come to an end in a few decades with the Growth of China and other countries.

  17. #65
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    The Empire DID NOT "fall apart", giving those countries independence from Britain was part of joining the then "common market".

  18. #66
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    a tiny island that had no wish to be Argentinian, and still dosent to this day, if you remember the Argies INVADED the Falklands and they needed to be taught that this isn't allowed, and boy didn't the British Army teach them a lesson!!
    You sound like a Sun headline! There was little to be proud of about that campaign, the Brits were very lucky, and if a few truths ever came out we wouldn't look good. But let's not take this thread off-topic.
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  19. #67
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    Originally Posted by ma bungo
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    Along with the miners and new age travellers ....Argentina were welcome to the Falklands , 255 British soldiers died for a tiny island the other side of the world.What a waste .
    Thatcher was not good to the travellers at all, I also recall reading about the battle of the beanfield, it was not good. I think she started the downhill journey of this country with her free market economics and privatising state assets. The free market does not provide for everyone and all it does is make the gap between rich and poor bigger.
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  20. #68
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    the one thing I have against Maggie is selling off the council houses!
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  21. #69
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    Thatcher was not good to the travellers at all, I also recall reading about the battle of the beanfield, it was not good. I think she started the downhill journey of this country with her free market economics and privatising state assets. The free market does not provide for everyone and all it does is make the gap between rich and poor bigger.
    Wasn't Just the Beanfield , there were numerous trashings/encounters with the police been used as a private army , only reason I was not at the beanfield was I was already on remand from the previous fiasco at Nostel Priory . Final mass police action was Stoneycross, seeing many homes confiscated
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  22. #70
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    Originally Posted by hagrid
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    the one thing I have against Maggie is selling off the council houses!
    Now we have a culture obsessed with home ownership as a result, which has driven up house and rent prices so much that most people can not afford to buy, or even rent in some circumstances. If the gov were serious about the housing crisis maybe they should start and scrap the right to buy schemes, then give councils loans or grants to build more social housing. It seems that 'council housing' or 'social housing' are terms that are becoming less used in politics these days, as more emphasis is placed on ownership.
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  23. #71
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    Originally Posted by ma bungo
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    Wasn't Just the Beanfield , there were numerous trashings/encounters with the police been used as a private army , only reason I was not at the beanfield was I was already on remand from the previous fiasco at Nostel Priory . Final mass police action was Stoneycross, seeing many homes confiscated
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    Was there not some theory that during the miners strike a lot of the police were actually soldiers dressed in police uniforms.
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  24. #72
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    yes back along nobody owned they all rented, they couldn't afford to own. now everything is about owning your own home and social housing is in decline, not enough housing to go around.
    in the south west the average house is 15 times the average annual income, high housing cost/low wages.
    I owned my one and only house back in the 70s, I lost it in divorce number one, never earned enough to save for a deposit for another one.

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