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Thread: We should have stayed or Why it's good we're leaving!

  1. #145
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    We could also say the same thing about those who voted to stay in Europe. Maybe it's some of those 'stayers' who haven't learnt to think outside the box and are afraid of change, especially when they are so used to being fed bullshit by big brother, along with extended European family members, while being told, "there is no other way" Yeh right! Weheard you shout after the vote. Now look at US running with it. It strikes me that folk like you making statements like the one you posted, can only blame others because your so blinkered by EU bully boy spin, that you even fear your own shadow upon this earth, getting the better of you.

    One could really say, those who voted 'out' are the ones taking responsibility back from a nanny state of quango dictators who fear independence of all outcomes.
    A lot of folk blame the EU for everything, but the reality is you can't blame the EU for your failures in life, you make your own choices in life, people have to take responsibility for themself. Regardless of whether you are in or out, your life is your own responsibility, it is not the EU's fault or the fault of immigrants if you have a krap life.
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    Last edited by rhythm; 12-09--2017 at 11:42 PM.

  2. #146
    Great posts here.....can't do too many groovies because the bias (of the posts [however informative]) continues to support the very obvious (in my very humble opinion) obfuscational tactics that fog the big issues that really affect democratic behaviours ie POWER, WEALTH and CONTROL.......the gaps between haves and have nots continue to grow amidst the fog of information and pseudo political bollocks.

    Much love x
    Last edited by zendaze; 12-09--2017 at 11:11 PM.

  3. #147
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    The thing that irritates me the most is the amount of bigotry and racism that brexit seems to have brought about in this country.
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  4. #148
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    A lot of folk blame the EU for everything, but the reality is you can't blame the EU for your failures in life, you make your own choices in life, take responsibility for yourself. Regardless of whether you are in or out, your life is your own responsibility, it is not the EU's fault or the fault of immigrants if you have a krap life.
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    for a lot of folk the rules and governing set out by the EU have had detrimental effects upon businesses and to some extent 'our way of life'

    Blame can be viewed as proportionate if rules and regs are blanketedly enforced. We are not talking straight bananas here, but red tape and restrictions. Food mountains. Crops ploughed back in because of 'market stability'. Housing shortages etc.

    most of my adult life there's been high unemployment, now that tide has turned. We could find we have more jobs to fill than we have 'home grown' manpower to fill. This would be a marvellous situation to be in, because then with terms attached, we can take control of imagration and tax employees accordingly.

    Lets see how Europe deal with 'mass' migration in the coming years. We have already witnessed the cracks appearing in Germany/Italy. Hopefully we won't be apart if it when it reaches saturation point and those EU Countries and governments have to act.

    The EU and 'other bodies' can and have had a positive impact on our lives In many ways. Unlike the Ten Commandments when one man laid them out on civilisation. The EU legislation, acts, laws have been accumulated from many heads. We were all on a learning curve, and we now see the bigger picture. We, the majority of British citizens, feel we have the tools, the guidance and the know how to make a better, safer, fairer job of it.

    We blame the EU for it's negative impact while, tongue in cheek, appreciate all the common-sense decisions made/enforced and adopted.

    We as a nation are allways looking to blame or moan about something, if its not the weather. Since the election it's the first time 'blame' has been used to quantify the reason the majority voted out. Migration, jobs, red tape, laws, free markets are more likely the reason the British people voted out of the EU, rather than blaming the EU for ones own personal failures or a crap life. Wanting to better life is a evolutionary trait we have grasped with both hands. If the European Union is not delivering, then going it alone is a sensible option. If it works great, if not we won't really be any worse off in the long run, solong as the EU doesn't crumble as a result of our leaving. We will no doubt be invited back with open arms should needs be, once they have got over chucking the baby out with the bath water. We will be a highly valued member to them at any time.

    But you gotta ask yourself this, why are the 'stayers' in the minority in the first place? Maybe it's time to look closer to home for personal failings.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  5. #149
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    But you gotta ask yourself this, why are the 'stayers' in the minority in the first place? Maybe it's time to look closer to home for personal failings.
    I would not say 48% are a minority of people, if it went to another vote it would go back the other way, a lot of people have changed their mind and a lot of people who didn't vote first time around would actually vote, but the first vote was a valid vote so there we are. As for migration, that was a key issue why a lot of people voted out, a lot of people in this country do not like immigrants, which is a shame. The problem with Britain is it does not seem to like working with its European neighbours unless it gets its own way, it's like being in a group of people and you are having a good time, and then all of a sudden that guy Britain comes a long and spoils things. Anyway, the clock is ticking, and that guy Britain does not seem to want to pay its bill, so there is no moving forward until it is settled. If we are going to leave at least have some people in place who know what they are doing,
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  6. #150
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    The thing that irritates me the most is the amount of bigotry and racism that brexit seems to have brought about in this country.
    yep, racially motivated hate crimes increased dramatically after brexit, the vote basically told a lot of people that its ok to be racist.

    We will no doubt be invited back with open arms should needs be
    somehow doubt that, all EU member countries would have to approve this and I imagine some would be less than sympathetic to us coming grovelling back

    But you gotta ask yourself this, why are the 'stayers' in the minority in the first place?
    2% is hardly a big minority. If you did a referendum now then I reckon leave would be in the minority due to lots of people seeing the negative effects (before we've even left) and realising that it was a mistake to vote leave
    do I dare disturb the universe?

  7. #151
    FORM FROM THE VOID Danann's Avatar
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    I Just Think About All The Innocent Peeps That Get Hurt By It All ...Whether We In Or Out Innocent People Were Going To Always Be Hurt In Some Way Sadly
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    Whether That Be Socially Or Money...Jobs .Schooling ..Etc Etc ...Because If We Stayed In ...Something Was Going To Explode Anyway Esp Racially And Hate. Because Peeps Anger And Hate Was Rising And Rising Like Volcanoes..And Near Exploding As Peeps Blaming No Jobs ..No Money..No Housing..No Free Speech Etc Etc On The Rise Of People Coming To UK Due To Being In EU Especially And War Zone Countries Etc..
    And.
    When UK Voted Out .. Again Its The Innocent People That Get Hurt And There Families And There Schooling And There Housing And Money And Jobs Etc Etc Etc ...As Many Will Be Forced To Leave....Even Though The Hate And Anger And Racism Etc Will Still Remain....As The Blame And Anger People Feel That Has Been Caused By Others Will Not Change As They Will Still Be The Same Hateful Angry People Sadly
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    The Problem Was Not I Feel The People Coming And Living In Uk ..It Was More About Everything If Not Most Being "Controlled By EU Laws And Restrictions And Demands" Etc Etc ..Taking Away Free Choice Of What Companies..farmers.. Fisherman...Small Businesses Etc Etc Etc As They Were Told They Had To Do It The EU Way And Not There Way Etc Etc . What To Grow How To Grow It ..What Feed To Buy For Livestock What Dairy Products ..Meat Products .Vegetables Fruits Etc Etc Even Household Electric Kettles Hairdryers Etc Etc.
    So I Think Peeps Just Got Tired And Fed Up With It All And Kinda Exploded All The Hate..Racism..Blame..Anger Etc Etc At The Voting ...And Voted Out...Instead Off The Spineless Politicians Who Did Nothing Knowing The people Of This Country Were Growing In Hate .Racism Blame Anger Etc Etc Over The Continuing Restrictions Put On This Country Even Laws Were Not Safe Or Untouchable From The EUs Control As Many Convictions And Unbeluevable Sentences Were Over Turned And Not Allowed Even Though Our Courts Found Guilty Or Tried To Do Things To Keep This Country Safe And Its People Were Just Simply Overturned Causing Even More Hate And More Blame On The EU Too Controlling Grip Of The UK So UK Peeps Rebelling Against That Too ..
    And Whenever You Have This Emotional Volcano Eruption Its Always Mostly The Innocent Peeps That Get Burned And Hurt Along The Way Sadly ...
    While The Eu Politicians..Both EU And UK Are Safe Well Away From The Exploding Volcanoe And Its Fall Out...
    And Just Simply Blow Out Hot Air And Miles Upon Miles Of Red Tape They Scatter ...While The Real People Continue To Try Deal And Cope With The FallOut And Confusion And Hate And Rascism And Blame And Hardships And Struggles And Fears Etc That Has Been Left In Its Wake Sadly
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    .....
    Last edited by Danann; 13-09--2017 at 01:15 AM.
    Form From The Void & Mists
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  8. #152
    Is the British Prime Minister directly elected by the electorate?
    Is the Queen elected?
    Is the House of Lords elected?

    Regain independence my arse!

    This country has always been ruled by the aristocracy, which by the way is mostly of foreign origin. The true born and bred are plebs who are indoctrinated to bow to the Royal Family and fight and die for the Crown.

    I can't wait for a super hard Brexit. I want to see the plebs drink their Kool Aid like Jim Jones' cult members.

    This is my opinion. Freedom of speech.
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  9. #153
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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    Is the British Prime Minister directly elected by the electorate?
    Is the Queen elected?
    Is the House of Lords elected?
    Brexiter logic is to complain about unelected folk, whilst making excuses for other unelected folk to stay in power.

  10. #154
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    You have only to see Junker ranting about European Federalism, his 'closely-united' Europe, to see that he stands in the shadow of a man smaller in stature, but much more powerful, who also wanted a Federal Europe, many years ago. Mercifully, that man, and his armies, were defeated. But some of his ideas remain, embedded in the minds of some of those who run the European Union.

  11. #155

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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    The thing that irritates me the most is the amount of bigotry and racism that brexit seems to have brought about in this country.

    Is that a brexit thing?

    I thought tradespeople became upset long ago because their rates were being pounded by newbies to the UK who were able to export sterling to achieve huge personal gain relative to the gain experienced by similarly grafting Britishers.

    I don't believe it's a 'fight in the street' kind of thing......most Britishers are too damn decent and guilty to go so far as to assert a sense of racism that is probably opposite to that which you proposed.

    Like many others I share space and trust and work with economic migrants......there is no artifice (I hope) ....we have common goals. BUT BUT BUT........THE VALUE ACHIEVED FROM THOSE SHARED GOALS IS PREFERENTIAL TO THOSE WHO CAN EXPORT STERLING TO ACHIEVE GREATER MATERIAL BENEFIT (PROFIT!!!!) IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES.

    That further enslaves me and my ilk.

    You can be as coy as you like. Mostly economic migrants are not coy and nor is the machine that continues to grind less fortunate Britishers into the ground....that machine is in fact extremely overt in its statements.....so much so that it's at least curious that the haves in this shitty little nation are deaf, dumb, innocent and ignorant.
    Last edited by zendaze; 14-09--2017 at 01:56 PM.
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  12. #156

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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    You have only to see Junker ranting about European Federalism, his 'closely-united' Europe, to see that he stands in the shadow of a man smaller in stature, but much more powerful, who also wanted a Federal Europe, many years ago. Mercifully, that man, and his armies, were defeated. But some of his ideas remain, embedded in the minds of some of those who run the European Union.
    Winston Churchill, not exactly a German dictator, promoted and fostered the idea of United States of Europe, albeit not advocating the UK being part of it:

    ‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’

  13. #157
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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    Winston Churchill, not exactly a German dictator, promoted and fostered the idea of United States of Europe, albeit not advocating the UK being part of it:

    ‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’
    Totally agree. Churchill promoted the idea of a united Europe. Mainly because he had his eye on the Soviets, and thought that in unification lay strength. But Churchill would have wanted Britain running the show, not Germany. After the 2nd World War, least of all Germany.

  14. #158
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    Winston Churchill, not exactly a German dictator, promoted and fostered the idea of United States of Europe, albeit not advocating the UK being part of it:

    ‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’
    I'm all for a Democratic world government and the end of nations, the thing conspiracy people fear the most.
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  15. #159
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    I'm all for a Democratic world government and the end of nations, the thing conspiracy people fear the most.
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    Not if it was done the right way, but you are humans, so it would never happen
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  16. #160

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    Originally Posted by schadenfreude
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    Winston Churchill, not exactly a German dictator, promoted and fostered the idea of United States of Europe, albeit not advocating the UK being part of it:

    ‘Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.’
    Here's some more quotes from Churchill
    ''Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
    ''
    “Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force ''

    . “The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men,”

    “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism (Islam) lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.”

    I think that it's extremely unlikely that a man who said such things would be In total agreement with Merkels open borders ,unchecked and unlmited migration. policies ,particularly after her 2010 speech where she said that multi culturalism ( when migration. levels weren't at. breaking point ) hasn't worked out too well and then 5 years later announce on Facebook to all and sunder , come to europe ,when migration. levels were at an historic high. .

  17. #161
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Uncle jhad
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    Not if it was done the right way, but you are humans, so it would never happen
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    It will not happen in this lifetime, that I can see, but one day in the distant future. When the UK was full of ancient kingdoms, they probably thought it would be impossible to have a united kingdom, but it happened, one day we will have a united world and then we will look back and think how stupid we were having borders and things
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  18. #162
    One day in the not too distant future we shall have an almost global caliphate , ruled by laws relayed by Allan talla ,Sharia.

  19. #163
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    Originally Posted by likahamadoolihan
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    One day in the not too distant future we shall have an almost global caliphate , ruled by laws relayed by Allan talla ,Sharia.
    I don't think any of the organised religions will last another 1000 years.

  20. #164
    That should come as some relief for gay people religous minorities ( yazidi , christians in the lands of their religions origin ) women living in muslim lands , only another 1000 years to go and then they won't. be crucfied ,hung from cranes chucked from the tallest building or stoned to death or perhaps we could considerJewish communities in Europe whom for some reason. (?) are now feeling levels of hatred and bigotry not felt since the days of pogroms and the nazis .

  21. #165
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    In the West organised religion is in decline, you don't need a preacher to tell you how to live your life or how to be kind to people. There are a lot of people on the census who say they are Christian, but how many are really, for a lot of people it is just a label given to them at birth.

  22. #166
    Yes Christianity is in decline but more and more mosque been built all over Europe with Saudi and Turk funding ,

  23. #167
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhythm
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    I don't think any of the organised religions will last another 1000 years.
    maybe not, but hatred, greed and selfish superiority, will always raise its ugly head. Like cults that come and go. There will always be a movement to suppress. A indoctrination to quash and a freedom to fight for. If the threat comes from space, we might see global unity for survival purposes only.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.
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  24. #168
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alices wonderland
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    maybe not, but hatred, greed and selfish superiority, will always raise its ugly head. Like cults that come and go. There will always be a movement to suppress. A indoctrination to quash and a freedom to fight for. If the threat comes from space, we might see global unity for survival purposes only.
    Best hope for an Alien invasion then
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