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Thread: General Election June 8th

  1. #25
    The Cat Summoner rhythm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by etherea
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    It's also why the party rank and file members like and trust him and why many in the parliamentary party hate him. Like most MP's they are more interested in keeping their job and all the perks that go with it than actually supporting a leader who holds true socialist values!
    Corbyn can not be bought by the media, he says what needs saying
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  2. #26
    Heavenly Creature etherea's Avatar
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    sadly it could be his downfall
    Because you are alive, everything is posible - Thich Nhat Hanh

  3. #27
    the devil's avocado Moderator Paul's Avatar
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    Corbyn has no real saleable charisma - he means well, his ideals are sound, he's a decent human being, but he's really not a good frontman.
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  4. #28
    lone wolf survivalist.
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    the Labour party is in tatters, already some of their mp's are leaving and not standing again for the election, and the lib dems are a joke, the tories have such a lead over labour-36 points I think they said on the news, that it wont matter how some people vote it will be a cake walk for the government.
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  5. #29
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    Corbyn has no real saleable charisma - he means well, his ideals are sound, he's a decent human being, but he's really not a good frontman.
    This is true, people seem to expect showmanship, charisma and personality more than a person who is actually honest and sticks by their ideals. It is sad that it is like that.
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  6. #30
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    I am not expecting a potential leader to juggle and wear a fancy costume. I just want something more in the way of passion. I am not getting it with Corbyn. He just drones and sounds like he's reading it off a card like he doesn't really believe in himself, let alone what he's saying.

  7. #31
    Folks, there's absolutely no chance that the Tories won't win this election by a landslide. Deal with it. Labour is destined to oblivion. The only chance to have a credible opposition could be a new party formed by the moderates from both labour and cons.

  8. #32
    Shed Junkie alices wonderland's Avatar
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    petition, “Theresa May: We deserve a debate -
    Here’s the link:

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    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  9. #33
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    Corbyn has no real saleable charisma - he means well, his ideals are sound, he's a decent human being, but he's really not a good frontman.
    Sadly, I would say this is absolutely correct. If at least a couple more years had passed before an election was called, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell might have gently taken over. He is somewhat to the left of Corbyn, a good organiser, and has a lively reputation. To give a brief quote:
    "We accept that cuts in public spending will help eliminate the deficit, but our cuts won't be to the middle-and low-income earners and certainly not to the poor. Our cuts will be to the subsidies paid to landlords milking the housing benefit system, to the £93 Billion in subsidies to corporations, and to employers exploiting workers with low wages and leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab."

  10. #34
    Every single person existing on this planet is sooo much better than a pm who dissed, and denied a vote for Scottish independence because its too much toil and drama in the face of brexit......I live in a staunch Tory constituency.......I hate this method of 'democracy' and cannot believe it is tolerated by an increasingly aware populace......It's a total sham......If a general election is not too much trouble then a second referendum on brexit would not be troublesome either. (Now that folks are more aware of the potential consequences of brexit I'm definitely in agreement with lib Dems on that).......

    If voters want Brexit I want it hard and I mean HARD.......TIS ' the will of the people' after all.

    This is not an opportunity for Corbyns croud to manipulate assets and inflation to increase the value of their personal assets like the last shitty labour government did this is about totally selling out the the country in favour of asset rich Tories winning a decisive majority that will further kill any potential for social mobility.

    Eyes open or eyes closed........The ONLY responsible democratic response to post referendum
    Happenings is a second referendum
    Last edited by zendaze; 20-04--2017 at 01:59 AM.

  11. #35

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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    Sadly, I would say this is absolutely correct. If at least a couple more years had passed before an election was called, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell might have gently taken over. He is somewhat to the left of Corbyn, a good organiser, and has a lively reputation. To give a brief quote:
    "We accept that cuts in public spending will help eliminate the deficit, but our cuts won't be to the middle-and low-income earners and certainly not to the poor. Our cuts will be to the subsidies paid to landlords milking the housing benefit system, to the £93 Billion in subsidies to corporations, and to employers exploiting workers with low wages and leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab."
    What does this MEAN?

    Have you stopped asking questions?

    Obfuscation and hogwash are rife........the bubble pop of 2007 was probably a bit of theatre since many more uberiche have come about on the back of bad loans and wage deflation for ordinary folk than should be expected.

    The moves made by governments did not save ordinary folk from any exceptional hardship......What those moves did was print money and shift it into the bank accounts of billionaires.

  12. #36
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    7 labour mp's have now jumped ship saying they wont stand for re-election under Jeremy Corbyn, meanwhile that old hippo Ken Clarke is standing for re-election.

  13. #37
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    Originally Posted by zendaze
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    What does this MEAN?

    Have you stopped asking questions?

    Obfuscation and hogwash are rife........the bubble pop of 2007 was probably a bit of theatre since many more uberiche have come about on the back of bad loans and wage deflation for ordinary folk than should be expected.

    The moves made by governments did not save ordinary folk from any exceptional hardship......What those moves did was print money and shift it into the bank accounts of billionaires.
    It means, in brief, that a Labour Party under McDonnell would cease to subsidise vast multinationals, and would make them pay their full taxes by closing all the loopholes opened by Blair and the Tories since Blair. It means that employers would have to pay decent living wages instead of paying crap wages that in turn have to be subsidised by handouts from (our) government money.

    Whether the Labour Party under McDonnell would be fully empowered to carry out these much-needed reforms is another matter for discussion.

    The historical period to which you refer was engineered under the auspices of the Labour Blairite government of Gordon Brown and his cronies in the City. These people were Tories in all but name, and many of them still lurk in the upper and middle ranks of the Labour Party. If the Labour Party turns further to the Left these Blairites will have to jump ship. Some of them have done so already, hopefully making way for younger and more genuine socialists.
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  14. #38
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    Originally Posted by oldkeith
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    It means, in brief, that a Labour Party under McDonnell would cease to subsidise vast multinationals, and would make them pay their full taxes by closing all the loopholes opened by Blair and the Tories since Blair. It means that employers would have to pay decent living wages instead of paying crap wages that in turn have to be subsidised by handouts from (our) government money.

    Whether the Labour Party under McDonnell would be fully empowered to carry out these much-needed reforms is another matter for discussion.

    The historical period to which you refer was engineered under the auspices of the Labour Blairite government of Gordon Brown and his cronies in the City. These people were Tories in all but name, and many of them still lurk in the upper and middle ranks of the Labour Party. If the Labour Party turns further to the Left these Blairites will have to jump ship. Some of them have done so already, hopefully making way for younger and more genuine socialists.
    Keith, you know we agree politically, but wouldn't this just drive business abroad?
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  15. #39
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    Originally Posted by Uncle jhad
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    Keith, you know we agree politically, but wouldn't this just drive business abroad?
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    Socialists run their State, man, not a business. We can make and turn out necessary stuff for very little, without the profit motive, if we choose to do so. That is the socialist use of the machine.
    Business hijacked the machine for profit - way back, as old Karl told us. We have seen what business has done so far, and it's not good.

    Most socialists don't object to people having or owning a business, so long as it respects other life here, and stays local and small. Once it gets big and begins to dominate local and national policies, people begin to suffer. Business, like religion, should always be under the watchful eye of the State.
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  16. #40
    King of Fish. wurzel's Avatar
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    Theresa May wants to make the General Election all about Brexit. And how we manage Brexit IS massively important, as it's vital tha...t we get a deal which looks after our economy, workers' rights, the environment and safety. But...
    This is not JUST a Brexit election.
    This is a: “Can you stomach children going to school hungry?” election
    It's a: “Can my adult kids afford somewhere to live” election
    It's a: “Are you happy with yet another pay freeze?” election
    It's a: “Can you sit by while your small business struggles and another tax break is given to large corporations?” election
    It's a: “Do we want to protect our NHS?” election
    It is a: “Can you live with people being homeless?” election
    It's an: “Are you happy that hate crime has risen sharply?” election
    It's an: “Are you happy with your Prime Minister cosying up to Trump and everything he stands for?” election
    It's a: “Do you want libraries, museums, playing fields and public leisure facilities?” election
    It's a: “Do we let our doctors, nurses, teachers and police and the rest of our public services be ground into the dust?” election
    It's a: “Can you manage on an unreliable zero hours contract?” election
    It's a: “Do we want to support British industry?” election
    It's a: “Should we let people die while they wait for their welfare entitlements?” election
    It's a: “Do we care if school budgets are cut or that they tripled university tuition fees? election
    It's a: "How do we care for our elderly people" election. Getting a decent Brexit deal is an important part of this election.
    But more than anything else:
    It's a: “WAKE UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING” election
    It's a: “GET THE TORIES OUT” election
    Never judge someone by the opinion of others.
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  17. #41
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    "get the tories out election"?? aint going to happen, they've got too much of a lead, do you really think the p.m. would call an election if she thought she would lose and then the labour party +Blair the liar could reverse Brexit?? no bloody way.
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  18. #42
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    Originally Posted by wurzel
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    Theresa May wants to make the General Election all about Brexit. And how we manage Brexit IS massively important, as it's vital tha...t we get a deal which looks after our economy, workers' rights, the environment and safety. But...
    This is not JUST a Brexit election.
    This is a: “Can you stomach children going to school hungry?” election
    It's a: “Can my adult kids afford somewhere to live” election
    It's a: “Are you happy with yet another pay freeze?” election
    It's a: “Can you sit by while your small business struggles and another tax break is given to large corporations?” election
    It's a: “Do we want to protect our NHS?” election
    It is a: “Can you live with people being homeless?” election
    It's an: “Are you happy that hate crime has risen sharply?” election
    It's an: “Are you happy with your Prime Minister cosying up to Trump and everything he stands for?” election
    It's a: “Do you want libraries, museums, playing fields and public leisure facilities?” election
    It's a: “Do we let our doctors, nurses, teachers and police and the rest of our public services be ground into the dust?” election
    It's a: “Can you manage on an unreliable zero hours contract?” election
    It's a: “Do we want to support British industry?” election
    It's a: “Should we let people die while they wait for their welfare entitlements?” election
    It's a: “Do we care if school budgets are cut or that they tripled university tuition fees? election
    It's a: "How do we care for our elderly people" election. Getting a decent Brexit deal is an important part of this election.
    But more than anything else:
    It's a: “WAKE UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING” election
    It's a: “GET THE TORIES OUT” election
    Sorry Worzel but you can't lump every other Tom dick and Harry's niggles into one list and not have had the same Tom Dick and Harry with a similar list at every other election ever been faught.
    Yes there are some good key points on the list, many worthy of addressing in one felll swoop. For many voters they will pick and choose. For many voters this election is about getting behind 'one government stance' built around 'that governments' Brexit Policies. All other issues will still be there at the call of the following elections and the elections after that. As they have been previously.
    What Quango opposition can really hold ground, gain seats, deliver a 'unified policy' in such short time before 8th of June? Let's not kid ourselves that Labour can. UKIP may have more to say! I'm afraid to say. We are stuck with the Tories on this one. She just wants to nail all those who now say she is a 'unelected' leader and for that she is willing to risk a hell of a lot to shut those people up. I've been a Labour voter all my life and for the first time ever. I can only back Corbyn if the rest of Labour moaners and Wanda be famous Labour pricks just fuck off or zip it. If not then my vote goes to plugging a hole in a sinking ship or making another ship sea worthy. This Island nation will need to do a lot if fishing if it's to feed its people and rescue any stranded.
    Every leader we have had has cosy'd upto some arsehole dictator, ex-actor or fool.
    Yes May will get a massive protest vote from those who find Brexit to their dislike. But she will get far more support from those on the fence who see nowhere else to go.
    even a gypsy caravan is too much settling down.

  19. #43
    King of Fish. wurzel's Avatar
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    I saw that statement on fb and copied it, I did not write it, but if enough people see it and agree with just one point each and it sways them to vote against them then it is working, even if it isn't Labour they vote for, there are too many people that don't vote for whatever reason, fair enough, but when you get a result through and see that only one or two thirds of eligible voters actually voted then it makes you think - what if?
    If there was a high voter turn out and the twats still get in then fair enough, ya still might not agree with it but at least ya know it is what the true majority wanted.
    Never judge someone by the opinion of others.
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  20. #44
    I'll put my....I believe the rhetoric hat on then shall I.......This is not a democracy and until proportional representation is realised will never be......Til then it's lies and more lies on top of old lies.....

    The voting system is archaic.....People should be given the vote on policy not vote professional politicians into tenure to make the decisions for them.....

    We have the technology for referendums on every decision of governance.......Let the people be held to account by the realtime 'will of the people' not vote in pretenders who lack the power and backbone to enforce the lies that get them elected.


    It's a very sad state of affairs when I find myself wishing disaster on an economy​.....But I have wished it ever since 9/11 cheated generations out of boom and bust opportunities and printed more and more billionaires into unfair existence.

    It matters not a jot who is in power....There is no outcome that could rectify the historical landgrab and protectioneering that is evident....

    These profiteers will continue to make fools of the populace because they can.
    Last edited by zendaze; 22-04--2017 at 01:21 AM.
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  21. #45
    For everyone who believes that the tories are going to win off the back of the 'official' poles, which sampled about 2000 people, I would like to share this online poll by ITV, which at the moment shows 68% of people support Corbyn, whilst just 20% support May, with 164200 people having voted.... I would suggest given the difference in sample size that Corbyn is in fact much more popular, an may well be the one 'winning by a landslide'


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  22. #46
    Self reporting polls are notoriously inaccurate, but then so have all the other polls, the previous GE, Brexit, and the US, barely a single one got anything right.

    I think this election will be about who comes out and votes, lots of reports saying a landslide win for the Tories will get those who oppose the Tories out in their droves. There also looks to be a heck of a lot of tactical voting possible, with anyone but the Tories.

    On a side note, or maybe not.


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  23. #47
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    Originally Posted by Paul
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    Corbyn has no real saleable charisma - he means well, his ideals are sound, he's a decent human being, but he's really not a good frontman.
    it's not that he has no charisma - it's that his charisma is hidden by the media campaign to disrespect and undermine him....
    check this out:
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  24. #48
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    Originally Posted by genty
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    For everyone who believes that the tories are going to win off the back of the 'official' poles, which sampled about 2000 people, I would like to share this online poll by ITV, which at the moment shows 68% of people support Corbyn, whilst just 20% support May, with 164200 people having voted.... I would suggest given the difference in sample size that Corbyn is in fact much more popular, an may well be the one 'winning by a landslide'


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    Yay genty - I'm chanting for Corbyn and considering doing some viral/guerilla action

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