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Thread: Jailed for pretending to be a man...

  1. #25
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    Originally Posted by Maxal
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    From article: "The newspaper says she was shaking and crying as she looked up to her family in the public gallery, who shouted words of comfort and blew kisses."

    The mental picture of mummy blowing kisses to her dildo-wearing lesbian daughter brought tears to my eyes. I hope mummy was wearing a blindfold too.
    Lmfao!


  2. #26
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    I think if it is true, she's gone to the police because of the embarrassment. Tit for tat.


  3. #27
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    Originally Posted by LionL
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    We don't know her name - thank goodness! Victims should be protected by anonymity from the shame they already feel (unjustly) being magnified by the glare of public discussion.

    If we want victims to come forward we need to look after them and be nice to them.
    Note: I am hypothetically talking about the case here. I don’t have a real sense of the people (now I have read both articles). I hate the possibility the ‘victim’ here is a true victim and that her trust was violated. My gut reaction is that she isn’t 100% honest in her testament of the experience. She isn’t an unusually innocent girl with no awareness of the internet and modern world. Is she? Yes, these things matter, what individual would be beguiled in such a manner? If she were severely irresponsible, or weak in some way, then where was the guardian in all of this? After that possibility, if she was just naieve, then partly, the point of life, with the inexperienced, is that you learn through your mistakes – presumably now she will think twice before having blindfolded sex.


    Also to consider is the psychological type of some who overplay the victim role, taking too much comfort and self-validation from it. Possibly the reality is the reverse, they are the abuser. In this case the ‘victim’ might be lying, playing for attention or some other incentive. Hence falsely taking the perpetrator to court, she is actually the abuser. It could be that the ‘victim’ did indeed realise / suspect the other was a woman, but it suited her inability to come to terms with being a lesbian. At some point, the said ‘victim’ was repelled by her own continuance in the charade. She then turned her own self-loathing into anger, and denied her knowledge (or suspicion) of the other’s gender.

    The article states, “Newland has maintained her innocence, claiming her accuser always knew she was pretending to be a man as they engaged in role playing while struggling with their sexuality.” From this one article it seems to be one woman’s word against another. We don’t have many hard facts. Are there other people’s testimonies. Presumably there are some facts other than hearsay?

    There is one thing:

    ***** She was jailed for an extra six months for defrauding her former employers - an internet advertising agency - of £9,000 by creating fake client profiles between March 2014 and September 2015. *****


    And this goes along with the fake facebook profile Newland created on the internet to dupe the ‘victim’ when she was aged 15. It seems this girl, Newland, is assuredly one of the new generation where the internet profoundly (re-?) shapes her sexual identity! So, she has problems herself. A critical question to determine verdict, is how complicit / aware the ‘victim’ is in this type of internet role play.

    I agree with you fully LionL, victims should be protected and anonymity is part of it. I also think most rape sentences, for serious cases, are too lenient. However, figuring out who is a victim isn't a snap decision. Perhaps these newspapers have created too much of a popular freak story out of this and fallen for a comfortable, binary good v evil scenario, propped up by homophobia.

    Camille Paglia is one of the lead spokeswomen on this subject, saying strong words about institutions and their role in the private realm (of sex and relations - often that they should not interfere in the private), also about women taking responsibility in a dangerous world. Yes, the world should protect and defend, however, the feasibility of this has its limitations. There is also a role for the 'victim' to play, there should be a certain amount of responsibility and awareness of the real world. To use Camille’s metaphor: it is a jungle out there! As extreme example: you don't run through the city streets naked and blindfolded, screaming "do as thou wilt!". There will be repercussions.

    Some sense from the very verbal Camille Paglia:

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    This case has a lot of layers. There is the case itself, case aside there are other issues: increasing neuroses in society, internet weirdness, media hype v reportage, how we deal with sex in general and homophobia. [I feel another rant rising within.] Another suspicion is how cases like this could possibly be taking the piss out of the legal system and be further fuelled by money incentives.Of course the legal system has its faults, but with millions of people how else do you continue some degree of civility? If the 'victim' is claiming she was fragile, and not compos mentis, was this mentioned to the perpetrator? Who is the victim's guardian? OK, Im going a walk in the rain.


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  4. #28
    I have to say, lots of grown ups are 'fragile' in all sorts of ways, but they don't have guardians.. I'm sure there have been times when I could have done with one to protect me (from myself, mostly)..

  5. #29
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    I didn't insert the Camille Paglia link properly. Hopefully this will do it:


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  6. #30
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    Originally Posted by Maxal
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    Note: I am hypothetically talking about the case here.

    I know, s'alright.

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    I agree with you fully LionL, victims should be protected and anonymity is part of it. I also think most rape sentences, for serious cases, are too lenient. However, figuring out who is a victim isn't a snap decision. Perhaps these newspapers have created too much of a popular freak story out of this and fallen for a comfortable, binary good v evil scenario, propped up by homophobia.
    You're damn right there Maxal!
    The world is full of magical things patiently waiting for our senses to grow sharper

  7. #31
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    I know what you mean Miss bee. Maybe she didn't have a guardian. And it's not relevant to the verdict, as somebody shouldn't be taken advantage of in this way regardless.

    I think what is bugging me in this case is the possibility that Newland isn't as bad, as the article depicts and doesn't deserve 6 and a half years sentence. Something about the whole thing seems to imply complicity, and then a betrayed complicity. Of course having written so much I could be stupidly wrong.


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  8. #32
    Well, my first reaction was that both are obviously fragile people. One to weave a whole personality - maybe so much so that she half believed it herself?
    And of course, the other woman, who never thought to question why all the blindfolds, etc?

  9. #33
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    As some will discover here, I can go on about things. It’s because I am interested . . . I wanted to go into this separately, along with the judgement of this case there may be some homophobia.



    The essence of the charge is the defendant lied about her sexual identity and this then changed the whole sexual premise (I suppose) to the opposite of what it was: pleasurable 100 hours of sex to something instantly repugnant. IE, she discovered she was ‘lied to’, in a way she hadn’t imagined (?). Suddenly, and in retrospect, Newland was no longer the same obscure object of desire.
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    Part of my argument is when you blindfold yourself, thereby limiting the number of senses, you are forfeiting yourself from the wisdom of that sensual insight. You know you could be duped visually! Perhaps certain values shouldn’t be allowed to figure as importantly – it’s not normal sex, why should we judge it under the constraints of normal sex? I’m not saying if you agree to handcuff sex, you hand yourself over wholeheartedly. But consider, for instance, gerontophilia. (Ah!!!!!! Yuck you scream.) What if in a similar case, the person lied about their age and then had blindfolded sex? Then when the blindfold was taken off, the ‘victim’ realizes she was having sex with a hideous crone? The sex was good, and the wrinkles (and one hairy mole) were hardly noticed because the skin was so smooth. ‘Victim’s’ defence – “she felt so young!” Would the three sexual assault charges still hold? Would the sentencing be as severe? IE would an old croney judge see the crime as morally decadent as same sex assault.


    But loads of people on dating sites lie about their age – I guess they are all criminals. Loads of people lie about other things. A homeless guy says “I have loads of money”, blindfolds his ‘victim’ has sex for 100 hours. Victim-in-tears reports to the courts: “I thought I was fucking a tycoon. I feel so cheap.” Are sexual fantasies lies? . . . and then when the ‘victim’ is tired of the ‘fantasy’ and pretends she wasn’t consenting, is an assault committed? . . . someone in bondage for instance . . .

    ***** Sentencing her, Recorder of Manchester, Judge David Stockdale QC, said: "Truth can sometimes be stranger than fiction. "The truth, the whole truth, here is as surprising as it is profoundly disturbing." He added: "It is difficult to conceive of a deceit so degrading or so damaging for the victim upon its discovery." *****

    This is from the first article, and Judge David was found not to be “fair and balanced”. In the second hearing the same verdict held but the sentencing was more lenient (eight years reduced to six + a half for something else). In my mind, the difference in sentence isn’t so great.

    ***** "It is difficult to conceive of a deceit so degrading or so damaging for the victim upon its discovery *****

    Yes to discover that the other is exactly the same sex as yourself, it’s like being with a mirror, there is nothing more degrading. Can’t help the irony here. Though I do understand the repulsion at something unexpected, something deemed unnatural to the majority, I can’t help being ironic. Some people in times of war, they are forced to have sex with their relatives, do I need to go into a list . . .? Sade catalogues many things far more degrading than this Newland case. Homophobia is a strange one, and I fully agree, people shouldn’t be fooled into sex of any type, including homosex. But here’s a tip: if you want to be safe and responsible, if you want to retain the rights which accompany the full judgement of an adult [Maybe this is a the point where I am wrong?] don’t reduce your senses, do it later when trust has been established. Listen to Camille Paglia (link in a previous post). [Consider here when somebody depletes their senses so much with drink they are unable to give consent.]

    I’ve gone too far with all this, and am getting a bit confused myself. I think it might be summed up as a matter of what characteristics / issues should or possibly, need not be revealed by the other. Conversely, then what characteristics / issues should be determined by the self. Figuring out the other person’s sex? Who’s responsibility is that to assert? When do you ask? Yes, I would hope a stunning transsexual or transgender would have the decency to tell me if I wasn’t aware. One thing where there is a strong case for others to state their case is with people who don’t disclose their known HIV status and have sex . . . there is a crime with real repercussions (?). What about other illnesses? This opens up a whole sluice, should we sign consent forms?


    I really am going a walk. And I’ll try to avoid getting so involved for a while . . .
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  10. #34
    Imagining and writing ... Boddhidharma's Avatar
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    Interesting and engaging reasoning, which is logically defensible. Now you have got me at it - I started to write a long rant then, in support of your arguments, but decided I needed to take the dog for a long walk in the rain. He's not too keen, but I am!

  11. #35
    Off the beaten track .... Maxal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Boddhidharma
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    I needed to take the dog for a long walk in the rain. He's not too keen, but I am!
    The walk with your dog in the rain sounds so pure. I hope you both thoroughly enjoyed it.
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    I could learn a lot from you. Rants are good, but I can get so wrapped up, and sometimes when I step away I think why did I write that?

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